Topic: The eternal q: repair or replace?

[21Rouge]

We have owned since new a 2000 Montana. There is currently 131k kms and it is has driven about 7k kms per year tops for each of the past 3 years.

An oil analysis in March showed up coolant in the oil  . The amount was low, maybe too low to 'benefit' from a pressure test. As well the car is driven only about 500 kms a month. So overall the written recommendation of the technician who did the analysis was to wait and to visually monitor the coolant level. In July another analysis showed similarly. However in August the coolant level has begun to fall .

I for sure dont like going to the dealership but they had replaced the intake manifold gasket in 2003 while under warranty (35k miles). As well we had purchased our current two vehicles from this dealership and of course there will be a replacement vehicle in the forseeable future. So these bits gives me a (false?) glimmer of hope that the dealership/GM just might meet me part way re the infamous head gasket failures for this engine.
We had kind of planned for a replacement car for spring 09 but we are now definitely entering that twilight zone of car ownership i.e. spend repair monies on a problematic car (the AC *just* died on Thursday ) or instead put those funds towards the purchase of a new vehicle . Having it safe and driveable at a reasonable cost for another 9 months is what we were hoping for and we thought was doable as the car would only put on another 4500 kms until next May.

[PMREdmonton]

Just looking at the noted reliability of this vehicle in Consumer Reports, it looks like this is the start of major repair work for the vehicle.  I'd suggest you think strongly about offloading and finding an alternative new/used vehicle.

[FiestaTT]

Your engine is on its way out. GM 3.4L V6's are famous for this problem.

[dr_spock]

Replace if it doesn't hold any emotional value for keeping it.

[articsteve]

Change the oil and then deal it.  GM is broke.  I doubt they will pay the dealer anything to fix the gasket.  Just don't bring the matter up, deal it and MOVE ON.

[barrie1]

GM is NOT broke at all but wether they will honour warranty on this matter will be between you and the dealer. Its hard to say how much longer this engine will run but when was the last time the anti-freeze was changed in this engine as that has a lot to do with any possible warranty you may receive. 

[FiestaTT]

GM is NOT broke at all

GM lost $15.4 billion dollars in the second quarter. If they aren't broke yet, it'll happen soon. Regardless, dump the Montana.

[PJungnitsch]

From what I understand the problems with the GM V6 engines is a combination of a) too long coolant change intervals, b) coolant (Dexcool) that is prone to acidity/sludging/leaking c) gaskets that deform and get eaten away, and d) a switch from metal to plastic intake manifolds which warp when tightened down, plus degrade from the hot exhaust gases that are run through them for the EGR system.

So just doing the easy and cheap fixes a) and b) and the relatively straightforward but expensive fix c) still leaves the crappy manifold itself d).

Here's a good thread on manifold fixes for the 3800, might be something availalble for the 3.4 as well.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/fix-series-2-3800-v6-upper-intake-43255/

From what I hear GM has gone back to trusty metal manifolds in the last year or so.

Trouble with fixing your Montana's engine is that (going by Consumer Reports and Carsurvey.org) the whole vehicle electrical, transmission, etc has reliability problems.

http://carsurvey.org/modelyear_Pontiac_Montana_2000.html

[21Rouge]

An update:

Waterpump is leaking so that is why just recently I have noticed visually, the loss of coolant. (But for sure no puddling below)

After that repair the pressure test indicated there is a leak (manifold) but the numbers indicate that the leak isnt full blown. At that point I volunteered the information that the oil analysis indicated a relatively small amount of antifreeze in two successive oil samples over a 5 month period.

And given the low kms the car does each month I will leave it at that.

[FiestaTT]

I don't know if not driving the van around often is going to help the problem at hand here. Regardless of your fixing the waterpump, the leak in the gasket will eventually become "full blown". Whether or not you keep the van is ultimately your choice, but based on what you've said here expect a big repair bill somewhere down the line. Good luck!

[toolatecrew]

GM is NOT broke at all but wether they will honour warranty on this matter will be between you and the dealer. Its hard to say how much longer this engine will run but when was the last time the anti-freeze was changed in this engine as that has a lot to do with any possible warranty you may receive. 

   If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 klm warranties as well. This company (GM)is the only one that does so figure it out.

Oh wait no warranty on this well known problem too bad.

[21Rouge]

Whether or not you keep the van is ultimately your choice, but based on what you've said here expect a big repair bill somewhere down the line. Good luck!

I guess at that time we will replace the vehicle. Its not like the book value on a 'healthy' 2000 Montana with 130k kms is that great  .

[stodge]

I vote for "replace!". Definitely. Get rid of it and buy something else - enjoy driving without wondering if you'll make it home.

[FiestaTT]

GM is NOT broke at all but wether they will honour warranty on this matter will be between you and the dealer. Its hard to say how much longer this engine will run but when was the last time the anti-freeze was changed in this engine as that has a lot to do with any possible warranty you may receive. 

   If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 klm warranties as well. This company (GM)is the only one that does so figure it out.

Oh wait no warranty on this well known problem too bad.

Does barrie work for GM?

[rrocket]

Does barrie work for GM?

YES!!!!

[FiestaTT]

Oh, well that explains everything. Nobody in their right mind would defend these U-body vans given their terrible crash-test performance and time-bomb engines. Except a GM employee, of course.

[rrocket]

^^^^LOL.  Expertly put...LOL

[barrie1]

Fiesta I do not work for GM and most folks on here know it. More misinformation being spread as usual, "I am retired from GM." Even with the problems they have had in the past they are still a better vehicle then 99% of the vehicles on the road to-day. There is no warranty on this owners van because look at the age which is over the 7 year mark. Even if it had happened while on warranty the anti-freeze was the cause of the probelm and not the head design at all. The owners who have had these problems brought them on themselves by lack of service knowledge altho this may have been done on this unit with the 1st repair a few years ago. I would change the anit-freeze and deal this vehicle now while the rates are so good as we don't know how high they will be in Jan 09. 

[toolatecrew]

Hmm who chose the antifreeze that went into the engine at production that caused all these problems again?

Couldn't of been GM could it?

[johngenx]

Even the worst old car is almost always much cheaper to keep going than buying something new.  However, in the case of that van, you're going to banging your head against the wall in trying to keep up with the repairs.  There comes a time when the inconvenience of driving something unreliable outweighs the cost of getting something new(er).  That time is rapidly coming.