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sailor723
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2008, 04:16:17 am » |
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FWD cars can oversteer like no tomorrow in the snow. It's called trailing-throttle oversteer. The driver overcooks the corner, chops the gas in order to slow down. The weight transfers quickly off the rear tires, and the back end swings around. This is one place where ESP might be beneficial.
Exactly.....hence the reputation FWD cars got early on for being liable to spin in slippery conditions.....and the reason why it's so important on FWD cars to install 4 and NOT 2 winter tires
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 04:47:03 am by sailor723 »
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My first ever GM ownership experience can best be described as "Fool me once...."
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Schmengie
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2008, 01:21:06 pm » |
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FWD cars can oversteer like no tomorrow in the snow. It's called trailing-throttle oversteer. The driver overcooks the corner, chops the gas in order to slow down. The weight transfers quickly off the rear tires, and the back end swings around. This is one place where ESP might be beneficial.
Exactly.....hence the reputation FWD cars got early on for being liable to spin in slippery conditions.....and the reason why it's so important on FWD cars to install 4 and NOT 2 winter tires  ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. |
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' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson
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sailor723
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 02:14:27 pm » |
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FWD cars can oversteer like no tomorrow in the snow. It's called trailing-throttle oversteer. The driver overcooks the corner, chops the gas in order to slow down. The weight transfers quickly off the rear tires, and the back end swings around. This is one place where ESP might be beneficial.
Exactly.....hence the reputation FWD cars got early on for being liable to spin in slippery conditions.....and the reason why it's so important on FWD cars to install 4 and NOT 2 winter tires ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. Well,as I said,to each his own.... but to my mind ESP only has to keep you on the road (or maybe out of the path of that oncoming tractor-trailer) once during the years you have the car to be well worth the 400-500 bucks. |
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My first ever GM ownership experience can best be described as "Fool me once...."
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mmret
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 06:48:10 pm » |
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ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. ESP Upside: Keeps you alive. Expected Value = chance of dying per trip * trips taken in the car's lifetime * value of your life * marginal increase in survival odds with ESP compared to not having ESP. (not exactly, but a decent enough approximation for illustration) ESP Downside: Costs money, potentially less fun factor if it can't be turned off. In a Versa, I'm going to ignore point #2. Expected Value = $500 over the car's life. Net value =  |
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Have: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK
Had: 01 GrandAm, 07 Civic
Dream: SLS AMG
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sailor723
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 06:54:03 pm » |
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ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. ESP Upside: Keeps you alive. Expected Value = chance of dying per trip * trips taken in the car's lifetime * value of your life * marginal increase in survival odds with ESP compared to not having ESP. (not exactly, but a decent enough approximation for illustration) ESP Downside: Costs money, potentially less fun factor if it can't be turned off. In a Versa, I'm going to ignore point #2. Expected Value = $500 over the car's life. Net value = Yep...It's sort of like fire insurance on your house...complete waste of money unless you're in the 0.00something % of the population who's house burns down  |
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My first ever GM ownership experience can best be described as "Fool me once...."
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tpl
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 06:58:33 pm » |
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I think I'll stick with ESP AND four best quality winter tires AND prudent driving in slippery weather.
ESP was not available on the FIT at any cost, if it had been we would have bought it. The FIT has 4 Blizzak WS60 for winter
ESP is standard on the GTI and has a defeat switch. The GTI will have 4 HR rated Winters, Maybe Blizzak maybe Conti.
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It is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
Lord Palmerston
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mmret
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 07:25:15 pm » |
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ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. ESP Upside: Keeps you alive. Expected Value = chance of dying per trip * trips taken in the car's lifetime * value of your life * marginal increase in survival odds with ESP compared to not having ESP. (not exactly, but a decent enough approximation for illustration) ESP Downside: Costs money, potentially less fun factor if it can't be turned off. In a Versa, I'm going to ignore point #2. Expected Value = $500 over the car's life. Net value = Yep...It's sort of like fire insurance on your house...complete waste of money unless you're in the 0.00something % of the population who's house burns down Its only a waste of money if the risk was incorrectly priced  For fire insurance I would think that they have some decent models / data to work from. |
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Have: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK
Had: 01 GrandAm, 07 Civic
Dream: SLS AMG
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sailor723
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2008, 07:35:10 pm » |
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I think I'll stick with ESP AND four best quality winter tires AND prudent driving in slippery weather.
My feelings exactly...every little bit helps |
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My first ever GM ownership experience can best be described as "Fool me once...."
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Wolfe
Drunk on Fuel
 OfflineVehicle: Mazda Miata
Gender: 
Location: Tronno
Posts: 2806
BOO!
 
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2008, 07:50:07 pm » |
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ESP is no replacement for 4 GOOD winter tires. I've never had a problem on snowy or slippery roads with any of my FWD cars, and none of them had ESP. Personally, I don't need another electronic nanny, and I don't miss not having ESP in my Versa. ESP Upside: Keeps you alive. Expected Value = chance of dying per trip * trips taken in the car's lifetime * value of your life * marginal increase in survival odds with ESP compared to not having ESP. (not exactly, but a decent enough approximation for illustration) ESP Downside: Costs money, potentially less fun factor if it can't be turned off. In a Versa, I'm going to ignore point #2. Expected Value = $500 over the car's life. Net value = Yep...It's sort of like fire insurance on your house...complete waste of money unless you're in the 0.00something % of the population who's house burns down Its only a waste of money if the risk was incorrectly priced For fire insurance I would think that they have some decent models / data to work from. NAV of ESP? Geez, you do learn stuff quickly don't you?  |
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To err is human, to blame it on someone else is even more human.  |
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mmret
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2008, 07:54:31 pm » |
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I wonder what kind of discount rate we should apply. |
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Have: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK
Had: 01 GrandAm, 07 Civic
Dream: SLS AMG
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slybry
Auto Obsessed
OfflineVehicle: 2005 Mazda 3 Sport & 2011 BMW 328 Xdrive
Gender:
Location: Montreal - West Island
Posts: 792
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2008, 09:45:22 pm » |
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I thought this was supposed to be a thread about the Versa not a ESP discussion. Another thread that has gone completely off topic.  |
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Living my BMW dream.
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rrocket
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2008, 09:45:44 pm » |
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^^^^You'll get over it.... |
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How fast is my Supra? I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....
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Schmengie
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« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2008, 09:10:18 pm » |
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I thought this was supposed to be a thread about the Versa not a ESP discussion. Another thread that has gone completely off topic. I really, really like my Versa. Is that better? |
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' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson
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Juke1
Drunk on Fuel
OfflineVehicle: 2011 Nissan Juke SL AWD
Gender:
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2053
member
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« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2008, 05:34:22 am » |
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I thought this was supposed to be a thread about the Versa not a ESP discussion. Another thread that has gone completely off topic. I think the Versa is the greatest!!! |
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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. - Dale Carnegie
Diversity is not about how we differ. Diversity is about embracing one another's uniqueness. -Ola Joseph
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