CD Article: 2008 Nissan Versa hatchback 1.8SL

[CD_Editor]

Test Drive:


A roomy, comfortable hatchback with generous cargo space and good fuel economy the Versa hatchback is a great value, particularly 2009 models which have been reduced in price by up to $1,000, reports editor-in-chief, Greg Wilson.

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[Angry guest]

cheap ass nissan...

Yeh they lowered the MSRP by $1000, but they raised the intrest rate back up to 4.9% from like 1.9% before...and there are no more $600 grad rebate !!

So WATCH OUT GUYS if ure planin to buy the Versa...you're actually payin MORE than 08s !

[sailor723]

I surprised manufacturers haven't started to offer stability control on their full line (at least as a stand alone option or part of a premium package) I mean,it's going to be mandatory in a year or two isn't it? I know I'm at the point that I won't consider a car without it.

[Juke1]

I don't think the majority of people want it, we just bought 2 new cars and it was not even on our minds.  It's just another system that can fail, I noticed that a number of cars that have it are very soft, without it control would certainly be an issue.

[carcrazy]

I like Versa, but one thing that really annoys me is the unusual tall gear shifter on the automatics. It really hurts my eyes... So '70s.

Wow... If correct, the cargo numbers are really something; bigger than the Tiguan IIRC. 

[The Mighty Duck]

I don't think the majority of people want it, we just bought 2 new cars and it was not even on our minds.  It's just another system that can fail, I noticed that a number of cars that have it are very soft, without it control would certainly be an issue.

On a small, FWD car I couldn't care less if it has stability control.  In an SUV or a high-power, RWD car, of course (as long as it can be turned off), but I don't think the Versa needs it...

I'd be interested to see the number of Rabbits sold with and without stability control, IIRC its a $450 option.

[sailor723]

I don't think the majority of people want it, we just bought 2 new cars and it was not even on our minds.  It's just another system that can fail, I noticed that a number of cars that have it are very soft, without it control would certainly be an issue.

On a small, FWD car I couldn't care less if it has stability control.  In an SUV or a high-power, RWD car, of course (as long as it can be turned off), but I don't think the Versa needs it...

I'd be interested to see the number of Rabbits sold with and without stability control, IIRC its a $450 option.

Funny....I'd have thought FWD cars would be where stability control would be of value....(winter driving...back end wanting to pass the front etc)

[Juke1]

I don't think the majority of people want it, we just bought 2 new cars and it was not even on our minds.  It's just another system that can fail, I noticed that a number of cars that have it are very soft, without it control would certainly be an issue.

On a small, FWD car I couldn't care less if it has stability control.  In an SUV or a high-power, RWD car, of course (as long as it can be turned off), but I don't think the Versa needs it...

I'd be interested to see the number of Rabbits sold with and without stability control, IIRC its a $450 option.

Funny....I'd have thought FWD cars would be where stability control would be of value....(winter driving...back end wanting to pass the front etc)

Nope, wrong, with 4 snows all around I never experienced that unless I pull the park brake in a parking lot   RWD on the other will do that, step on it and she will go to one side for sure.  For FWD overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry need IMO, they are too floaty.

[johngenx]

For FWD overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry need IMO, they are too floaty.

How does stability control solve the problem of soft suspension?  Spring rates and damping specs have little impact on over or understeer.  I can easily build a car that would knock your teeth out over the smallest bump, and would also understeer like mad.

Stability control does not create traction where there is none.  Good tires are #1, driving skill is tied with good tires.  Stability control can compensate for lack of driving skill, but it only goes so far.  It cannot defy the laws of physics.

As for "overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry" needing stability control over something with a more firm or controlled ride, that's bunk.

[Snowman]

For FWD overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry need IMO, they are too floaty.

How does stability control solve the problem of soft suspension?  Spring rates and damping specs have little impact on over or understeer.  I can easily build a car that would knock your teeth out over the smallest bump, and would also understeer like mad.

Stability control does not create traction where there is none.  Good tires are #1, driving skill is tied with good tires.  Stability control can compensate for lack of driving skill, but it only goes so far.  It cannot defy the laws of physics.

As for "overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry" needing stability control over something with a more firm or controlled ride, that's bunk.

 

[Cortina]

Versas are like driving down the road on a big sponge. I thought how very Renault. Not a bad car tho. 

[sailor723]

I don't think the majority of people want it, we just bought 2 new cars and it was not even on our minds.  It's just another system that can fail, I noticed that a number of cars that have it are very soft, without it control would certainly be an issue.

On a small, FWD car I couldn't care less if it has stability control.  In an SUV or a high-power, RWD car, of course (as long as it can be turned off), but I don't think the Versa needs it...

I'd be interested to see the number of Rabbits sold with and without stability control, IIRC its a $450 option.

Funny....I'd have thought FWD cars would be where stability control would be of value....(winter driving...back end wanting to pass the front etc)

Nope, wrong, with 4 snows all around I never experienced that unless I pull the park brake in a parking lot   RWD on the other will do that, step on it and she will go to one side for sure.  For FWD overly soft sprung cars like a Sonata or Camry need IMO, they are too floaty.

Well....I've had it kick in a couple of times in slippery conditions on our Maxima (with 4 X-Ice winter tires) To each his own but as I've said...seeing as so many cars come with stability control I wouldn't have a car that I was going to drive in the winter without it.

[Juke1]

Stability control does not create traction where there is none. - Agree

Good tires are #1, driving skill is tied with good tires.  - Agree

Stability control can compensate for lack of driving skill, but it only goes so far.  It cannot defy the laws of physics. - Agree

Floaty cars handle poorly - Therefore.....

[johngenx]

If "floaty" cars need ESP ahead of performance cars (and we KNOW your Altima is such a car, not running with the floaty crowd, but the BMW-M's and so on) then why was the system first designed and used in high performance cars?  Yup, Mercedes (along with Bosch) invented the ESP system and first installed it on their most powerful and capable models.  These cars had suspension systems that were unforgiving, and often would "let go" with less warning than softer tuned models.  They had powerful engines capable of overwhelming the tires easily.

Take two drivers, barreling down the 401 or whatever, one in a Camry, one in an Altima.  The Altima, has it's Bugatti-type super-car suspension.  The Camry, has handling like a 20 year old LeBaron with worn shocks.

A deer runs out onto the road.  Both drivers instinctively cranks the wheel hard.  Which car will avoid the deer?  Perhaps both, perhaps neither, perhaps one or the other.  The Camry might have softer suspension ("floaty") but is tuned for controllable understeer in panic situations.  The driver scrubs off speed and despite little skill, manages to avoid the deer.  The Altima, the intense performance machine it is, is tuned for much sharper reactions, oversteers, and the driver is in the weeds.  Perhaps the Altima needed ESP more than the Camry?

Your idea that suspension "floatiness" and whatever you felt between the two cars, somehow equates to ultimate handling capability and the need for ESP is incorrect.  An example would be the 07 and 08 Subaru Impreza.  The 07 is much stiffer and sharper in it's suspension tuning.  The 08 feels soft in comparison.  Guess what?  The 08's limits are as high or higher than the 07, and in many situations, more controllable. In terms of feel, many prefer the 07 model, 'cause it feels more fun an reacts sharper, but that has nothing to do with the true limits of adhesion.

[The Mighty Duck]

There may be a perception that a softly-sprung car has a lower tolerance than a more sporty car, but the ultimate limits might be no different.  In the sporty car, it's simply that the divide between traction and letting go is like an on/off switch, not the gradual feeling of losing it you find in the other car...

Driving a FWD car in winter, why do you need ESP?  A high-horsepower RWD car will kick the back end out in the dry - that's where you (might) want ESP.

[Mitlov]

The Altima, the intense performance machine it is, is tuned for much sharper reactions, oversteers, and the driver is in the weeds.  Perhaps the Altima needed ESP more than the Camry?

I thought the only way to make a FWD car oversteer was using the e-brake?  I didn't think you could make even an aggressively-tuned FWD car oversteer simply by being over-aggressive with steering inputs?

[mmret]

Driving a FWD car in winter, why do you need ESP?

To brake the inside rear wheel?

[johngenx]

FWD cars can oversteer like no tomorrow in the snow.  It's called trailing-throttle oversteer.  The driver overcooks the corner, chops the gas in order to slow down.  The weight transfers quickly off the rear tires, and the back end swings around.  This is one place where ESP might be beneficial.

[Mitlov]

FWD cars can oversteer like no tomorrow in the snow.  It's called trailing-throttle oversteer.  The driver overcooks the corner, chops the gas in order to slow down.  The weight transfers quickly off the rear tires, and the back end swings around.  This is one place where ESP might be beneficial.

Interesting.  So how would the Altima's stiffer suspension make it do this MORE than a Camry?  If anything, I'd think that soft suspension would allow more weight transfer, not less...

[johngenx]

Interesting.  So how would the Altima's stiffer suspension make it do this MORE than a Camry?  If anything, I'd think that soft suspension would allow more weight transfer, not less...

In some cases, perhaps.  However, it has more to do with the tendency to over or understeer.  A stiffly sprung car can easily be tuned to understeer or oversteer like mad.  Brake dive is also a function of suspension geometry and not just spring rates.  Also, trailing throttle oversteer is also a function of wheelbase, F/R weight ratio, roll-bar tuning, etc.  Our Mazda MX-3 was quite easy to coax into trailing throttle oversteer, but our much more softly sprung 626 not so much.  In the case of the MX-3, this was nice, as it made rotating in sharp corners much easier.  But, for some drivers you could see where it would be bad.

My example was simply that the Altima might be tuned for oversteer and the Camry for understeer.  Most drivers, in a panic situation, would find the understeer much easier to control.