Author Topic: So many GM brands..... (Read 22582 times)

barrie1 · « **Reply #180 on:** July 20, 2008, 09:21:40 pm »

No one brand or model within a Comapny can or ever will totally satisfy every driver out there. Our needs and personal tastes alone also dictate what we drive to a very large degree. Our pockets also have a lot to say as well when it comes down to what we drive as well. Buick does make a really beautiful car for those who want a vehicle of that design. Its not for all of us but it is a darn good choice and a well built car as well. I have owned 3-4 Buicks over the years and they have all served me very well. A new one now would also do the same but I am still driving my Caddies which are running just fine. Just don't need a new car at the moment as my fleet is running just fine.

kevlar · « **Reply #181 on:** July 21, 2008, 08:00:32 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on July 20, 2008, 09:21:40 pm

No one brand or model within a Comapny can or ever will totally satisfy every driver out there. Our needs and personal tastes alone also dictate what we drive to a very large degree. Our pockets also have a lot to say as well when it comes down to what we drive as well. Buick does make a really beautiful car for those who want a vehicle of that design. Its not for all of us but it is a darn good choice and a well built car as well. I have owned 3-4 Buicks over the years and they have all served me very well. A new one now would also do the same but I am still driving my Caddies which are running just fine. Just don't need a new car at the moment as my fleet is running just fine.

sure every car company can keep chasing smaller and smaller markets but at some point they don't because the returns are not worth it. thats why you see toyota, honda, vw, ford etc only focus on 2 divisions - their mass market divisions and their luxury divisions. it becomes a very expensive proposition to create a hugely redundant divisions simply to make it a little up market or sporty. gm needs to have faith that people will go for their best alternative. eg an upgraded mailbu or aura. i still say get rid of all of the labels except caddy and replace them with the gm label. the gm label is well recognized label in itself and it will allow them to become much more efficient as an organization.

inco · « **Reply #182 on:** July 21, 2008, 08:28:03 am »

How about that Volt......and speaking of NASCAR....

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/463907

toolatecrew · « **Reply #183 on:** July 21, 2008, 08:29:32 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on July 20, 2008, 09:21:40 pm

No one brand or model within a Comapny can or ever will totally satisfy every driver out there. Our needs and personal tastes alone also dictate what we drive to a very large degree. Our pockets also have a lot to say as well when it comes down to what we drive as well. Buick does make a really beautiful car for those who want a vehicle of that design. Its not for all of us but it is a darn good choice and a well built car as well. I have owned 3-4 Buicks over the years and they have all served me very well. A new one now would also do the same but I am still driving my Caddies which are running just fine. Just don't need a new car at the moment as my fleet is running just fine.

So why can't GM build a car with all the "style" and reliability of a Buick and put a Chev badge on it and sell it through Chev dealers? Are there special little buick elves that build better cars?

You are talking about MODELS. Yes you need different models to compete within different segments but there is no reason why you can't have models withon one brand to satisfy many differnt markets. Strange that all the top automakers can seem to do it except GM.

There is no reason to continue the Buick divsion. Buick gets top marks for quality so by folding Buick into Chevrolet all that quality should spill over into Cobalts and Imaplas etc and now Chev as a whole should be a quaility leader. They can't lose.

Leviathan · « **Reply #184 on:** July 21, 2008, 12:36:10 pm »

Quote from: inco on July 21, 2008, 08:28:03 am

How about that Volt......and speaking of NASCAR....

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/463907

Quote

The list includes rear-view mirrors, traction control, better tire design, advanced breaking and better fuel-injection that has improved fuel economy and lowered emissions.

So when your car breaks down it is really broken

Snowman · « **Reply #185 on:** July 21, 2008, 12:39:04 pm »

Quote from: Just Bob on July 20, 2008, 08:51:27 pm

Quote from: gmgod on July 20, 2008, 08:45:06 pm
ISN'T IT WIERD HOW THE BUICK ENCLAVE IS SO BEUITIFUL AND REWARDING AND THE NEW hIGHLANDER LOOKS LIKE A POS!!!! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT!!! A BUICK , GO FIGURE!!!!!

There is something wrong with your keyboard...

The problem is inside his head, please banish the troll.

Wolfe · « **Reply #186 on:** July 21, 2008, 03:09:37 pm »

Quote from: Leviathan on July 21, 2008, 12:36:10 pm

Quote from: inco on July 21, 2008, 08:28:03 am
How about that Volt......and speaking of NASCAR....

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/463907
Quote
The list includes rear-view mirrors, traction control, better tire design, advanced breaking and better fuel-injection that has improved fuel economy and lowered emissions.
So when your car breaks down it is really broken

That reporter was hyping a perpetual motion machine several months ago.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #187 on:** July 22, 2008, 09:25:14 am »

Case in point of splitting brands, just announced - the GM/Chevy twins as a single brand would have equalled 33,113 units - within striking distance of Ford's unchallenged dominance in the category for 15+ years.

TRUCKS
1. Ford F-Series, 36,555
2. Dodge Caravan, 22,723
3. Dodge Ram, 22,431
4. Ford Escape, 16,976
5. GMC Sierra, 16,771
6. Chevy Silverado, 16,342
7. Ford Ranger, 12,628
8. Honda CR-V, 10,232
9. Toyota RAV4, 10,102
10. Chevy Uplander, 9,084

Maybe GM's thinking is that if you take 6th place Chevy, less 5th place GMC, you get 1st place?

barrie1 · « **Reply #188 on:** July 22, 2008, 10:53:20 am »

Ford used to build and sell Mercury trucks as well but dropped the logo years ago now. The sales are down for all truck builders at the moment all the way up to the class 8 sized trucks as well. As both the sales figures are so close on the GM trucks its obvious that the both are wanted by the customers. The Chev truck is more of the work Truck or W/T edition while the GM is usually the more upscale model. There's definitely a market for both. Is the F150 counted in for their vans as well as the P/U trucks as well while the GM are strictly just the p/u's. You got Chrysler mixed in there with their Mini-vans as well as their p/u trucks it seems also. There's lots of room for all of the different models as there is still folks who wish to buy them.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #189 on:** July 22, 2008, 11:38:40 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on July 22, 2008, 10:53:20 am

Ford used to build and sell Mercury trucks as well but dropped the logo years ago now. The sales are down for all truck builders at the moment all the way up to the class 8 sized trucks as well. As both the sales figures are so close on the GM trucks its obvious that the both are wanted by the customers. The Chev truck is more of the work Truck or W/T edition while the GM is usually the more upscale model. There's definitely a market for both. Is the F150 counted in for their vans as well as the P/U trucks as well while the GM are strictly just the p/u's. You got Chrysler mixed in there with their Mini-vans as well as their p/u trucks it seems also. There's lots of room for all of the different models as there is still folks who wish to buy them.

Once again you are talking MODELS not Brands.

The GMC and Chev trucks are exactly the same platform. Same shcssis, engine even most body panels excepot for maybe a grille are identical. You could easily exapand the Chev lineup. There is no need for a separate divison . WHat's more profitable to have GMC with its own buildings staff overhead ect sell 16 K trucks and Checv with its own overhead sell 16 K trucks or to have Chev sell 32 K trucks?

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #190 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:07:52 pm »

I'm just saying that GM has intentionally LET Ford own the Truck (and for the longest time bragging rights to) ANY vehicle sales leadership, by splitting it's truck branding.

The Ford guys must have spent every model year sweating, waiting for someone at GM to wake up and realize this was the case and just decide to sell a single GMC truck brand (even out of a Chevy dealership).

Instantaneously would have 'doubled' their truck numbers and saved them the cost of new plastic grills for the front end and different steering wheel inserts.

Ultimately, whatever possible us-vs-them there would have been between the 'my Chevy is better than your identical GMC' crowd would have to rally to the 'any enemy of my enemy (FORD) is a friend of mine...'

articsteve · « **Reply #191 on:** July 22, 2008, 01:33:47 pm »

In Canada if GM dumps the GMC brand then they'd need to dump both Pontiac and Buick because one couldn't possibly sell a Silverado at a Pontiac/Buick store who could not survive without a 1/2 ton offering. That would be the ultimate brand confusion.

Snowman · « **Reply #192 on:** July 22, 2008, 03:32:21 pm »

Quote from: barrie1 on July 22, 2008, 10:53:20 am

Ford used to build and sell Mercury trucks as well but dropped the logo years ago now. The sales are down for all truck builders at the moment all the way up to the class 8 sized trucks as well. As both the sales figures are so close on the GM trucks its obvious that the both are wanted by the customers. The Chev truck is more of the work Truck or W/T edition while the GM is usually the more upscale model. There's definitely a market for both. Is the F150 counted in for their vans as well as the P/U trucks as well while the GM are strictly just the p/u's. You got Chrysler mixed in there with their Mini-vans as well as their p/u trucks it seems also. There's lots of room for all of the different models as there is still folks who wish to buy them.

Ford vans are the E Series.

initial_D · « **Reply #193 on:** July 22, 2008, 05:28:26 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on July 22, 2008, 01:33:47 pm

In Canada if GM dumps the GMC brand then they'd need to dump both Pontiac and Buick because one couldn't possibly sell a Silverado at a Pontiac/Buick store who could not survive without a 1/2 ton offering. That would be the ultimate brand confusion.

The dealership mess needs good de-consolidation(?) as well.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #194 on:** August 06, 2008, 10:12:35 am »

I was in Alliston and saw a CHEVY dealer. No other brand affiliation. Old school was Pontiac/Buick/GMC and Chev/Olds/Cadillac.

With Olds gone, I guess there aren't enough Caddy buyers in the 50/89 area...

barrie1 · « **Reply #195 on:** August 06, 2008, 03:38:18 pm »

In past years those figures you supply Thinking Out Loud would not be anywheres near acurate at all. As we are in a downturn right now with the fuel prices being what they are all sales are out of kilter for all builders. Many years GM has beaten Ford with the sales of their products just by adding them up. GM has had good reason to have the 2 lines over the years as they are both excellent products.

toolatecrew · « **Reply #196 on:** August 06, 2008, 07:36:11 pm »

Quote from: barrie1 on August 06, 2008, 03:38:18 pm

In past years those figures you supply Thinking Out Loud would not be anywheres near acurate at all. As we are in a downturn right now with the fuel prices being what they are all sales are out of kilter for all builders. Many years GM has beaten Ford with the sales of their products just by adding them up. GM has had good reason to have the 2 lines over the years as they are both excellent products.

Did you just accuse someone of providing "inaccurate figures"? Seriously? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Thinking Out Loud · « **Reply #197 on:** August 06, 2008, 08:51:23 pm »

Quote from: barrie1 on August 06, 2008, 03:38:18 pm

In past years those figures you supply Thinking Out Loud would not be anywheres near acurate at all. As we are in a downturn right now with the fuel prices being what they are all sales are out of kilter for all builders. Many years GM has beaten Ford with the sales of their products just by adding them up. GM has had good reason to have the 2 lines over the years as they are both excellent products.

The numbers were annouced the same day or abouts when I posted them from a national newspaper (can't recall which one). The numbers are accurate as delivered by THE INDUSTRY as at that date. Can't make this stuff up - sorry B1.

Regardless, the point I make, based on those industry figures, is that GM has been asleep at the marketing switch for 10+ years. I can't recall an ad where Ford hasn't boasted about the F150 being NUMBER 1. I do not recall Chevy boasting "WE'RE NUMBER 5! WE'RE NUMBER 5!" and GMC boasting "WE'RE NUMBER 6! WE'RE NUMBER 6!" PLEASE add us up, industry insiders!

At least Chrysler can borrow the old Avis catchphrase 'We're number 2 - We Try Harder!'. GM's is 'We're somewhere in the middle and have incompetants in our marketing department'. Even if they are identical in all other resepcts to the Ford product, splitting their sales in a category driven by sales numbers to satisfy a division is madness.

GM is happy leaving the bragging rights with Ford, I suppose, ad infinitum.

barrie1 · « **Reply #198 on:** August 08, 2008, 12:21:01 am »

When the sales were higher Ford did outsell GM but its not all that many years back now where GM with both brands put together did outsell Ford by a long ways. They have not outsold them in just one or the other brand I agree but for many years the GM twins together persay did outsell Ford by a fairly large margin. I do believe your figures for now-a-days figures but I was refering to the past which is not that long ago at all. Thats what I am pointing out as its rare for GM to be down this far on truck sales as they have been building 1st class trucks. Of course with the gas sales and newer vehicles lasting much longer we can understand why. A friend of mine just bought a $44,000 Hemi P/U for $25,000 on Tuesday of this week. I would rather have a 5.3 for the fuel milage and power myself. They are very reliable and have been for years now as well.

rrocket · « **Reply #199 on:** August 08, 2008, 12:35:54 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on August 08, 2008, 12:21:01 am

I would rather have a 5.3 for the fuel milage and power myself. T

I don't think there is a 5.3...it's a 5.2 IIRC. Anyways, if you a referring to the Dodge 5.7 HEMI, it has the slightly better fuel mileage than the 5.2 (because the HEMI has cylinder de-activation) and the HEMI also makes more power!! So why would you want the 5.2 then?? Less power AND worse fuel economy.

***EDIT*** Ahh...I see you are referring to the 5.3 in the GM trucks. Got it. I thought you were talking about the old 5.2 Dodge engine. My bad. But even so, the 5.7 HEMI makes more HP (345) than the 5.3 Chevy (315 HP)