CTC Review: 2009 Toyota Corolla S

[wing]

James, it appears from some of the interior photos that the colour of the dash & door panels are mis-matched. Or is it just the lighting?

Johnny, you know what?  I noticed the same while driving the car!  It as you turn it changes colours in the light.  But the panels to seem to be more susceptible to this than any other car I have ever driven.

[Mitlov]

Hasn't the Corolla has mostly been about reliability, economy and conservative performance since it began? While some seem to feel they should buy a sports car in order to have some fun driving, I don't have that kind of money. Honda products (Civic, Fit and Acura EL) have had a better blend of economy, reliability and a decent 'fun' factor. The Mazda3 has in recent years done a better job of the fun, but doesn't compete as well in fuel economy.

I don't have a problem with practical transportation vehicles, or people flocking to the Corolla because it's a good practical transportation vehicle.

What irks me is when Toyota makes "S" and "XRS" models that are still nothing more than practical transportation vehicles, and utterly fail to deliver the excitement that their garish bodywork promises.

[Juke1]

Mitlov, yes and no, the XRS has the 2.4, the body is lower to the ground, different suspension and other goodies.  I know my brother has one.  The S on the other hand.....I agree.

[Honda Owner]

I spent several years working in Japan. Japanese consumers worship Toyota. They love conservative EVERYTHING, hell, half the cars in the country as sold in white. They even make you pay $500 more for it. Tacking plastic kits on cars and calling the "sport" models is childish at the best of times and on a Corolla it like putting rouge on a warthog. It is just not that kind of car. Honda does the same with the Fit; for an extra $7k (40% more!) over the DX you get a/c, a better stereo and some plastic. It is simply not worth it but it is useful to have a model like the Fit Sport to fleece kids and Toyota is doing the same with the S and XRS. Problem is that the 20 something usually doesn't have the credit or cash to buy these models so it is kind of self defeating. You can be sure that 90% of the Corolla that dealers order (and Toyota dealers order every car on their lot) will be automatic, a/c with power pack and for $20k that is a screaming deal.

Me suspects that once Toyota North America got the design they decided to go after the much vaunted "youth market." The main reason for this is that many of the Toyota execs here came from the former "Big Three" that has been wailing about the "youth market" since the fifties. It made sense then but it doesn't now because the mainstream buyer in North America is now over age 40. It is also those North American execs that got Toyota into the fullsize pick- up market which has caused it some pain recently. This really won't have much effect on Toyota since it has three strong, fuel efficient lines in the Yaris, Corolla and the Camry and can bring in a multitude of other models it makes for other markets.

Toyota is doing things that I find disconcerting and damaging to their reputation. It seems that they are cheaping out their main line Toyota products and trying to steer buyers towards Lexus. I drove a 2008 Corolla this year and was suprised how cheap the interior was, with Cavalier grade plastics. I found the engine rough. It still felt like it would last forever but it did not exude the feeling of quality that a Honda, for example, does.

Finally, the GM leftovers at Toyota are doing something I thought they would never do: they are fleeting cars. Have a look how many rental agencies are renting Toyotas out. This was unthinkable five years ago. Rental cars are sold either at cost of even below in order to either to get rid of excess inventory or to increase production to decrease unit cost.

[Mitlov]

Mitlov, yes and no, the XRS has the 2.4, the body is lower to the ground, different suspension and other goodies.  I know my brother has one.  The S on the other hand.....I agree.

The XRS is, if anything, more garish than a Mazdaspeed3, while arguably being less sporty than a Mazda3 2.3.  Just because it's sportier than a Corolla LE doesn't mean it actually delivers on the promise of its garish bodywork.

[Honda Owner]

You are correct; if Toyota North America ever made the Corolla into a Ralliart model, the Japanese execs would torpedo it. And rightly so, because this is not what Toyota owners want. From what I am hearing through the auto grapevine (where I worked for many years) the Japanese are mighty pissed at Toyota California for talking them into the big pick ups, which they have taken a bath on. It is not like Toyota to lose money on anything. They have now actually recovered all the R and D costs of the hybrid drivetrain and bucket loads of money of on every one they sell.

90% of the Corollas that go out the door will be base models with automatic, air and convenience package. They won't be able to keep up with the demand, either, so they must be doing something right.

[initial_D]

I spent several years working in Japan. Japanese consumers worship Toyota. They love conservative EVERYTHING, hell, half the cars in the country as sold in white. They even make you pay $500 more for it. Tacking plastic kits on cars and calling the "sport" models is childish at the best of times and on a Corolla it like putting rouge on a warthog. It is just not that kind of car. Honda does the same with the Fit; for an extra $7k (40% more!) over the DX you get a/c, a better stereo and some plastic. It is simply not worth it but it is useful to have a model like the Fit Sport to fleece kids and Toyota is doing the same with the S and XRS. Problem is that the 20 something usually doesn't have the credit or cash to buy these models so it is kind of self defeating. You can be sure that 90% of the Corolla that dealers order (and Toyota dealers order every car on their lot) will be automatic, a/c with power pack and for $20k that is a screaming deal.

Me suspects that once Toyota North America got the design they decided to go after the much vaunted "youth market." The main reason for this is that many of the Toyota execs here came from the former "Big Three" that has been wailing about the "youth market" since the fifties. It made sense then but it doesn't now because the mainstream buyer in North America is now over age 40. It is also those North American execs that got Toyota into the fullsize pick- up market which has caused it some pain recently. This really won't have much effect on Toyota since it has three strong, fuel efficient lines in the Yaris, Corolla and the Camry and can bring in a multitude of other models it makes for other markets.

Toyota is doing things that I find disconcerting and damaging to their reputation. It seems that they are cheaping out their main line Toyota products and trying to steer buyers towards Lexus. I drove a 2008 Corolla this year and was suprised how cheap the interior was, with Cavalier grade plastics. I found the engine rough. It still felt like it would last forever but it did not exude the feeling of quality that a Honda, for example, does.

Finally, the GM leftovers at Toyota are doing something I thought they would never do: they are fleeting cars. Have a look how many rental agencies are renting Toyotas out. This was unthinkable five years ago. Rental cars are sold either at cost of even below in order to either to get rid of excess inventory or to increase production to decrease unit cost.

Toyota isn't doing as good as it is on the JDM market as the rest of the world.

Fleets? Maybe rental companies got smarter, buy Toyotas', no maintenance, flip them over 1 year later, still get close to new car price for them.

[rrocket]

Fleets? Maybe rental companies got smarter, buy Toyotas', no maintenance, flip them over 1 year later, still get close to new car price for them.

Exactly what I was thinking.  Toyota sells damn near every Corolla it makes in Canada.  I've seen Honda Civics at rental places recently too...

The rental place only makes money when cars are being rented out, not when they have to go in for maintenance/warranty work...

Having one of the most reliable cars ever made in the fleet puts more money in their pocket.  Just like every business, it was a decision to make more money....

[Juke1]

Disagree, it's a way of putting out numbers to keep up to GM.  More and more their quality is starting to look like GM too, actually some GM's have better quality.

[articsteve]

You are correct; if Toyota North America ever made the Corolla into a Ralliart model, the Japanese execs would torpedo it. And rightly so, because this is not what Toyota owners want. From what I am hearing through the auto grapevine (where I worked for many years) the Japanese are mighty pissed at Toyota California for talking them into the big pick ups, which they have taken a bath on. It is not like Toyota to lose money on anything. They have now actually recovered all the R and D costs of the hybrid drivetrain and bucket loads of money of on every one they sell.

90% of the Corollas that go out the door will be base models with automatic, air and convenience package. They won't be able to keep up with the demand, either, so they must be doing something right.

From what I am hearing through the auto grapevine (where I worked for many years) the Japanese are mighty pissed at Toyota California for talking them into the big pick ups, which they have taken a bath on. It is not like Toyota to lose money on anything.

Dude, your talking out of your ^ss.  Toyota dealers absolutely needed a 1/2 ton to become full service stores. The Hino diesel is on it's way.

June 19, 2008 -

The Wall Street Journal _{reports some unsurprising news: "Toyota Motor Corp. is likely to struggle to make money at its two truck plants in the U.S. this year." The $2b San Antonio plant ran at about 92 percent of capacity last year. This year, it's limping along at 72 percent. Its sister truck/SUV factory in Indiana is said to be at a Chrysler-like 45 percent. Thanks to its flexible labor (i.e. non-union), Toyota has already re-assigned Indiana workers from the truck line to Camrys. Both Toyota truck factories are also cutting work hours: "Workers on each shift will work seven hours instead of eight assembling cars and will spend one hour in training." No layoffs, no jobs bank and no 95 percent pay for not showing up. Meanwhile, the car side of Toyota's portfolio remains strong and continues to gain share against Detroit. The Tundra is down, but Prius, Camry, Corolla and Yaris are rocking and rolling out the door.}

In May Tundra sales down 12%.  GM down 36%.  Ford down 26%.  Those last two are taking a BATH as you put it.  http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/06/light-truck-sal.html

90% of the Corollas that go out the door will be base models with automatic, air and convenience package. They won't be able to keep up with the demand, either, so they must be doing something right.

Completely incorrect.  LE models doing well because of the smart key.  Women buyers love the smart key.

[initial_D]

Disagree, it's a way of putting out numbers to keep up to GM.  More and more their quality is starting to look like GM too, actually some GM's have better quality.

Keeping up with GM number ... OK. Kinda bleeding stupid for another company trying to keep up with GM's numbers the last few years.

[articsteve]

Finally, the GM leftovers at Toyota are doing something I thought they would never do: they are fleeting cars. Have a look how many rental agencies are renting Toyotas out. This was unthinkable five years ago. Rental cars are sold either at cost of even below in order to either to get rid of excess inventory or to increase production to decrease unit cost.

Again, your talking out of your ^ss.  Better put a link to confirm that Toyota sells Camrys and Corollas to rental fleets at a loss.  Most rental outlets are franchise operations.  Deals are made with local dealers not the Distributor.  They are bought for rental because they are incredibly easy to resell at good money.

For example, in Owen Sound, the headquarters of MPAC in Grey and Bruce Counties, an area larger than PEI, all inspectors cars are Corollas.  Where purchased?  Local Toyota dealer.  Price is negotiated with those two parties and only those two.  Same thing goes for the Children's Aid Society.  All agency workers drive what? Corollas.  Why Corollas and not Civics?  Local Honda dealer dysfunctional, fortunately. 

[Juke1]

Disagree, it's a way of putting out numbers to keep up to GM.  More and more their quality is starting to look like GM too, actually some GM's have better quality.

Keeping up with GM number ... OK. Kinda bleeding stupid for another company trying to keep up with GM's numbers the last few years.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49281.msg507173.html#msg507173

GM 157,738 Toyota 98,736

[IceAndFire]

Test drove pretty much all of the Corolla's except the LE before I bought my XRS.

The S and XRS have a very similar feel to them on the road except the XRS grabs better with the breaks and feels even more weighty with the steering.  The S is reasonably weighty.  The CE is like the RAV-4 with no steering feel at all..very very loose.  Engine wise the XRS and S/CE are like night and day...the S revs up high just to get going and it sounds "buzzy" to me when its at certain speeds. This is all remembering from the test drive mind you.  The 2.4L in the XRS is quiet except when revved high, gets up to speed with very little effort, and is very responsive.  Doesn't get the fuel economy mind you.

The Corolla would be better off with the Honda Civic 1.8 powertrain I think...the Civic likes to be revved and sounds great doing it while the Corolla 1.8 doesn't.  Fuel efficient to the extreme but no punch at all.

XRS doesn't seem to have the marshmellow feel that the S does...at least I've never felt it.  It'll take corners without any hesitation.  Maybe thats more a function of the grip on the 17s.

My biggest gripes about the car are smaller detail oriented things.  The clock placement (which is on the dash under the tach) is terrible.  Why can't it be a part of the radio unit?  The rear suspension is not very sophisticated...tight but not able to take rough surfaces as nicely as you'd expect.  The radio unit isn't fantastic...its ok, sounds great while playing CDs, but takes its sweet time loading up a MP3 based data CD, and the radio reception is only average.

[initial_D]

Disagree, it's a way of putting out numbers to keep up to GM.  More and more their quality is starting to look like GM too, actually some GM's have better quality.

Keeping up with GM number ... OK. Kinda bleeding stupid for another company trying to keep up with GM's numbers the last few years.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,49281.msg507173.html#msg507173

GM 157,738 Toyota 98,736

From those numbers, obviously GM is doing rather well then. A few thousand fleet cars won't make any difference at all.

[Greg B.]

Again, your talking out of your ^ss. 

Since you are the expert on that topic in these parts, you should know.

[Honda Owner]

From those numbers, obviously GM is doing rather well then. A few thousand fleet cars won't make any difference at all.

Except Toyota makes huge profits and GM loses money on every car it makes.

In the car biz, it is all about making money.

[safristi]

Again, your talking out of your ^ss. 

Since you are the expert on that topic in these parts, you should know.

......


 Oooh I jest Lurve Venting trill O' quists ...can Ya say that while typing & drinkin'  a Gottle off gear....

[Mitlov]

People are saying Corolla fleet sales are a smart move because the rental companies can turn around and sell them at nearly-new price.

How is flooding the used market with badly-abused, one-year-old Corollas NOT going to kill resale for both the rental companies and private Corolla owners alike?

[safristi]

  I'll take a goodly abused one........HYPERBOLE ALERT!!!