Freight and PDI charges in Canada

[Cord]

So was that the 10 minute exchange you mentioned earlier? If so, I'm not sure how numbers appearing on the contract where they weren't there before fits into that account. Or did you leave out the part where they said you could have it for MSRP and then later said you couldn't?

Setting aside that the salesperson was poor, it sounds like you made your offer and it was rejected so you left. Big deal. As you said, that's how it works.

[rrocket]

I realize it's much more fun for a chest beater to wait for something they know is coming and then complain about it.

Yea..it's the consumer that's the bad guy because they have to make sure the dealer isn't trying to slip something in....

[xviper]

measly $1100?"

$1100.00 is "measly"?  How many days does the average person have to work to earn 1100 bucks?  Yeah, I'll turf a car deal for 1100.  How arrogant to think 1100 bucks means nothing to me.  Car salesmen tend to think that I MUST buy this car.  Well, no, I don't.  I'll keep looking.  Sooner or later, I'll find the car I want at a place where the salesman and his boss are really in need of a sale.  And these days, I'll go across the border or buy slightly used privately.  When I search Autotrader these days, I will purposely exclude dealers and only look at private sales.  Many sellers will be willing to get a grand or 2 above what the dealer would have stolen it from him for.

BTW, anyone can buy the Canadian Red Book and most bankers will let you look at their black book as will your insurance company.  Black Books can also be seen at public libraries.

[Cord]

I realize it's much more fun for a chest beater to wait for something they know is coming and then complain about it.

Yea..it's the consumer that's the bad guy because they have to make sure the dealer isn't trying to slip something in....

You're really struggling for something to argue against here aren't you.

[kevlar]

i find it odd people are worrying about the pdi and freight extra charge when our cars cost thousands and thousands of dollars more than the states.   compare any car and then start asking questions. why is it metallic paint for audi costs 450 in the states and 750 here?    i say go shopping in the states and watch the canadian dealers and corporate head offices drop the prices.  my father in law just bought a subaru in the states for 14k less, brand new.   please subaru canada tell me thats all taxes.

[xviper]

Yea..it's the consumer that's the bad guy because they have to make sure the dealer isn't trying to slip something in....

In any situation where you've got the "many" (car buyers) and the "few" (car salesmen), the few must go on the defensive.  Surveys done on this topic have indicated that of all professions perceived by the general consumer, car salesmen are in the top few of the most detested and loathed.  Ranks right up there with lawyers and car insurance industry people.  I guess they have to be a little defensive.

[rrocket]

You're really struggling for something to argue against here aren't you.

Am I ?  More than any other consumer good that's bought on a regular basis, you have to make sure you aren't getting this or that cost added in.  Nothing else I've ever bought demands as much vigilance to make sure I'm not getting stuff I didn't want added in.

Nothing compares to the little incidentals that get slipped in (or try to get slipped in) when buying a car.

I've bought appliance and furniture that have cost more than cars, and didn't see any extras tacked on like I have when I've bought cars....

[Baron von Raschke]

i find it odd people are worrying about the pdi and freight extra charge when our cars cost thousands and thousands of dollars more than the states.   compare any car and then start asking questions. why is it metallic paint for audi costs 450 in the states and 750 here?    i say go shopping in the states and watch the canadian dealers and corporate head offices drop the prices.  my father in law just bought a subaru in the states for 14k less, brand new.   please subaru canada tell me thats all taxes.

Good point.  As Jil demonstrated in her review of the new MKS, car makers continue to price their cars far above what's charged south of the border.  One of their many explanations for this is that lowering prices will affect depreciation of current models already sold.  The MKS is a brand new model, so that logic goes out the window.....maybe it has a Canadian spec 99 litre wiper fluid tank for our Canadian winters

[Cord]

You're really struggling for something to argue against here aren't you.

Am I ?  More than any other consumer good that's bought on a regular basis, you have to make sure you aren't getting this or that cost added in.  Nothing else I've ever bought demands as much vigilance to make sure I'm not getting stuff I didn't want added in.

Nothing compares to the little incidentals that get slipped in (or try to get slipped in) when buying a car.

I've bought appliance and furniture that have cost more than cars, and didn't see any extras tacked on like I have when I've bought cars....

It seems you've missed the entire point of the on the road offer. You know, the way that John says he bought his Corolla. If you frame your offer (Assuming you want to pay less than MSRP) as an all-in, on the road number then how can anything be slipped in? Either they say yes or no. If they say yes you get a car. If they say no you can decide to leave (like John did at the Nissan store) or perhaps agree to pay more than you originally wanted, it's up to you. If you enjoy the confrontation, and many seem to, by all means analyze each number separately and hope they all add up to a number you can live with.

The only people that get stuff tacked on are the chest thumpers (always men, btw) that get so focused on one particular aspects of the deal (trade value, admin fee, options, etc.) that they lose sight of the total amount they want to pay.

[rrocket]

Not that it's slipped in...it's that they TRY to slip it in...(like what happened to John).....And instead of my getting what I asked for, I see they tried to weasel in...

[Cord]

Not that it's slipped in...it's that they TRY to slip it in...(like what happened to John).....And instead of my getting what I asked for, I see they tried to weasel in...

Surely you understand that you won't always get what you asked for.

In the exchange John described there was no slipping or weaseling in. He said he'd be willing to pay MSRP. They said no, here's what you'll have to pay. Since they wouldn't accept his offer, he left.

He originally mentioned something about numbers appearing on the contract where they hadn't been before but it's not clear whether he was referring to his experience at the Nissan store.

But, I would agree that if numbers are agreed to and then fees are added after the fact, that is dirty pool.

[rrocket]

But why is this seem to happen only (or most often) when buying cars?  I didn't get cables added into my bill for my new TV.  Or end tables being weaseled into my furniture purchase.

WTF is wrong with you industry?  LOL


(I'm sure you aren't "one of them" but you get the idea)

[johngenx]

But, it has gone this way...

I offer $20K, lets say.
They accept.
(this, of course, can be a whole bunch of back and forths)
Then, me thinking we're good to go at $20K, meet the "business manager."
Now, the contract has an admin fee, etching, and protection package.  Suddenly, the $20K I THOUGHT we'd agreed on is $21K or so.

Now, after thinking I've bought a car, I walk out.  What a waste of time...

[Cord]

But, it has gone this way...

I offer $20K, lets say.
They accept.
(this, of course, can be a whole bunch of back and forths)
Then, me thinking we're good to go at $20K, meet the "business manager."
Now, the contract has an admin fee, etching, and protection package.  Suddenly, the $20K I THOUGHT we'd agreed on is $21K or so.

Now, after thinking I've bought a car, I walk out.  What a waste of time...

Like I said, I think that is dirty pool.

[Cord]

But why is this seem to happen only (or most often) when buying cars?  I didn't get cables added into my bill for my new TV.  Or end tables being weaseled into my furniture purchase.

WTF is wrong with you industry?  LOL


(I'm sure you aren't "one of them" but you get the idea)

First of all it isn't my industry.

Second, buying a car is not like buying a TV or furniture. (Did that furniture store take trades?)

Third, you must not have been paying attention. You mean to tell tell me you bought a TV and weren't pitched on "an extended service plan"or a "screen protector" or that it wasn't suggested that you buy the "monster cables" for the best picture?

[johngenx]

Ha, good one!  Monster cables are the biggest scam in town.  We sold them and wow, couldn't believe how much money was in those things.  A $150 MSRP set of cables would run us $40 and worked no better than a $12 ($12 retail, $6 our cost) set.  I bet MC's cost on them was $3.  The package was the best thing about them.  We carried them 'cause some people INSISTED on the brand.  We bought cable in bulk and then made our own custom lengths for our installs, unless the customer insisted on Monsters.  Normally tried to talk them out if it, but some had to have it...

[initial_D]

But, it has gone this way...

I offer $20K, lets say.
They accept.
(this, of course, can be a whole bunch of back and forths)
Then, me thinking we're good to go at $20K, meet the "business manager."
Now, the contract has an admin fee, etching, and protection package.  Suddenly, the $20K I THOUGHT we'd agreed on is $21K or so.

Now, after thinking I've bought a car, I walk out.  What a waste of time...

That is one of the reasons I hate the process of buying a new car.

Of the two shopping experience involving price negotiation in the last 3 years, I specify the final price + GST. One was with the Mini dealership, and the other was with Mazda.

With the Mini, I got the invoice price from a generous Snowman, and made an offer with my credit card, and specify to the salesman that I had no intention to negotiate, accept the offer and take whatever out of the CC for deposit, no funny numbers. They accepted and took $2000 out my CC. Expect they screw up on the options, left out ESC when the car came. We didn't take the car.

With the CX7, I asked SirA for invoice numbers, and did some calculation, offer the local dealership a number, and they didn't bite. Phone up a Calgary dealership, got the deal on the phone. Almost painless. No funny numbers added. Have to let know know that you have no intention to waste time and effort. I still don't enjoy the negotiating process.

[rrocket]

Third, you must not have been paying attention. You mean to tell tell me you bought a TV and weren't pitched on "an extended service plan"or a "screen protector" or that it wasn't suggested that you buy the "monster cables" for the best picture?

Having something "pitched" at you is different than seeing it on the invoice.  Just ask John....LOL....


Oh...my bad!!  I thought you were a car salesman....

[PJungnitsch]

But, it has gone this way...

I offer $20K, lets say.
They accept.
(this, of course, can be a whole bunch of back and forths)
Then, me thinking we're good to go at $20K, meet the "business manager."
Now, the contract has an admin fee, etching, and protection package.  Suddenly, the $20K I THOUGHT we'd agreed on is $21K or so.

Now, after thinking I've bought a car, I walk out.  What a waste of time...

In 2006 I bought three vehicles:

New motorcycle for myself.
I offered to buy (at the advertised sale price), the salesman accepted, then when we went to write up the contract 'Oh, the business manager told me we have to charge xxx admin fee'.

I said 'No'.

They wanted to sell more than I wanted to buy, and quickly lowered the 'sale price' by the amount of the admin.

Used pickup for work
Offered to buy, salesman accepted, when we wrote up the contract with the sales manager, magically again xxx admin fee, xxx warranty fee.

Pissed me off, but this time I wanted to buy more than they wanted to sell, so I paid what they asked. Stung even more when I realized 'certified used vehicle' or not, a major service (plugs, brakes) was due soon after purchase. Luckily it was a great truck otherwise.

Used tractor for work
Learning from my mistakes, I sent out a bid for the total price this time. The price I got was the price, no surprises at all, no games, nada. Also negotiated to get all upcoming services done before I took delivery. Knowledge of the buying process on my side, and no separate salesmanager at the dealer made the process easy.

I think the whole salesman/salesmanager setup evolved in the consumer vehicle market as an effective way to squeeze those extra fees out of people. And the trouble is they sell stuff every day, they gets lots of practice at this.

If the average buyer bought as many vehicles per year as a salesmen sold, we'd be pretty good negotiators, and the process would be stress-free for everyone.

The way most people are, buying one vehicle on average every few years, just sets us up for grief the way the the vehicle sales system seems to be designed.

[initial_D]

What is the torque rating in the tractor? Does it have AC?