Freight and PDI charges in Canada

[toolatecrew]

I think its pretty simple. If you won't tell me what I get for my $700 PDI in detail it means you have something to hide.

I've got nothing to hide. I work in used sales and I'm sorry that I don't feel the need to spend my personal time investigating an issue to satisfy your petty rantings. I'll tell you what I know and if you don't like what I have to say I couldn't care less. You work in the insurance industry don't you? Does that make you responsible for answering every forum yahoo's complaints about the obscene premiums and poor service that most consumers receive?

It is simple though. When you you screw up your courage to ask for your $500 discount on a new car, just pretend that you are getting the PDI for free. Problem solved.

I did mean you as in the dealer so I've edited the origional post. But if YOU were the sales person and I asked you for a breakdown of what I got for my PDI charge and YOU refused to give it to me then I would assume YOU the sales person was hiding something on behalf of the dealer. So YOU (meaning YOU not the dealer) can now take your panties out of a bunch.

I used to work in sales to and I'd freely admit that I engaged in deceptive and dishonest practices as instructed by the dealer. I was young at the time and it took me a while to leave becuase of this.

I don't work for an insurance industry. I work for a service partner to the insurance industry and to the collision repair industry so if I did have information on premiums (which I don't) I'd share it as freely as I could as I do with other information regarding collision repair program guyidlines or with body shop operations.

Say what you might about insurance but they are sticklers for spelling out what you do or don't get in terms of coverages and features for your $

[Cord]

But if YOU were the sales person and I asked you for a breakdown of what I got for my PDI charge and YOU refused to give it to me then I would assume YOU the sales person was hiding something on behalf of the dealer.

So that's the big issue now? Are we faced with a nationwide epidemic of salespeople refusing to provide info about PDIs?

Talk about manufactured outrage.

[toolatecrew]

But if YOU were the sales person and I asked you for a breakdown of what I got for my PDI charge and YOU refused to give it to me then I would assume YOU the sales person was hiding something on behalf of the dealer.

So that's the big issue now? Are we faced with a nationwide epidemic of salespeople refusing to provide info about PDIs?

Talk about manufactured outrage.

Don't know where you come up with the idea there is any outrage ..defensive much?

I simply question anyone's motives who refuses to divulge what I get for my $. Actually I don't question them I understand their motives..to make as much $ as possible. It just happens to run contrary to my motives which are to pay as little as possible. PDi is simply being cloaked in some kind of mystasim or being present as if its taxes or something. Here pay an extra $700 ..well why? Becuase you have to. Why..? Well you just do? Well what do I get for my $700 . Never mind don't ask questions just pay it.

[Cord]

Don't know where you come up with the idea there is any outrage ..

If there wasn't, why bring it up? Where have you come up with this idea of salespeople refusing to divulge information about PDIs? I've never read that complaint once on this board in many years. Has this been a problem for you?

Since you apparently deal with dealership bodyshops why don't you take the initiative to find out everything you want to know about PDIs from them? It would probably be more enlightening than trying to build up phony issues here.

[ghost]

Maybe it's easier to deceive than educate..... 

[rrocket]

Let's look at another one....the over-priced "administration fee"...

Charging you $ xxx to push "print" on their computer and to send the shop boy down to the MTO to get your plates...

[Cord]

Let's look at another one....the over-priced "administration fee"...

Charging you $ xxx to push "print" on their computer and to send the shop boy down to the MTO to get your plates...

I'd like to see all admin fees disappear and just have higher selling prices on the cars.

[rrocket]

^^^^So that you could bury the excessive charges?  Nice....

[Cord]

Are you really naive enough to think that removing admin fees wouldn't just lead to higher transaction prices? When Honda told their dealers they could no longer charge admin fees do you think all the Honda dealers just said, "Oh well, $300 less per copy it is."? I'd bet large amounts of money that the average transaction price for Hondas in Canada has just increased by the amount of average admin fee.

It's not a matter of burying anything. Just that a car that sells at a $1000 discount would now sell for a $700 discount.

[rrocket]

Admin Fee: Just another way to  rape bleed the customer for un-needed $$$

[Cord]

And all that is why smart shoppers base their decisions on grand total, drive away prices. Only blowhards and chest beaters obssess about every item that makes up the price.

[articsteve]

Mechanics did (do) PDIs at the 3 dealers that I have worked (am working) for.

So what's the breakdown of what they did and the cost? 

I'm not doubting that they may have done PDI but it would be interesting to know if we are paying $65 an hour to have washer fluids topped up

So what's the breakdown of what they did and the cost?

There is no breakdown.  The PDI for most Toyotas is .6 of an hour on the mechanical side and it can be performed by any service employee.  The clean up and wash is another .6 of an hour.

Alignments are not done.
Keys come already coded
Compass is calibrated
Air is let out of tires which come at 44 psi
Yes, for some reason, the washer fluid is always low.
On a few models certain fuses are installed
Engine oil is check but transmission oil is not.
GAS FILL UP.  This takes a big bite out of the PDI profit.

To a great extent  the "Protector Plus" has replaced the "Admin Fee".  Fabric protection is all profit as is paint protection.  "Rust proofing" is also a huge money maker.

Long live Toyota and Toyota Dealers; they are your friends. 

[rrocket]

And all that is why smart shoppers base their decisions on grand total, drive away prices. Only blowhards and chest beaters obssess about every item that makes up the price.

Or people who care about where/what their money is going towards...

[Cord]

And all that is why smart shoppers base their decisions on grand total, drive away prices. Only blowhards and chest beaters obssess about every item that makes up the price.

Or people who care about where/what their money is going towards...

2 identical cars: one is $22,000 including a $1000 admin fee. The other is $22500 including $0 admin fee. So your hero is going to buy the second car on principle?

Riiight.....

[johngenx]

And all that is why smart shoppers base their decisions on grand total, drive away prices. Only blowhards and chest beaters obssess about every item that makes up the price.

Well, I guess I'm a blowhard/chest beater, 'cause when I sit down and $395 has magically appeared as an "admin" fee as well as other stuff that wasn't on the contract 10 minutes ago, I feel like I'm being shafted.

I was a part owner in a retail business, and when I came on board, they billed for "shop supplies" following an install.  Geez, the customer was expecting to pay $129 for the install, and then the bill is $149 'cause $20 magically appeared.  Sure, somewhere we told them it was coming, but in small print somewhere.  I stopped that right away, and we had "no surprises pricing."  All the prices were inclusive of all shop supplies and taxes.  We had a running gag for phone quotes one Christmas rush on remote starts.  We had a $249 unit that included installation (basic) and all supplies/taxes.  On the phone we'd say "you bring down a bag with 249 loonies, and that's it.  No other fees/charges."  People LOVED it.  Of course, extra installation products (remote door locks, etc) were menu priced and also were all-inclusive.

We'd have some customers note that JB's price was "only" $219 to our $249, then we'd explain how it worked.  "Shop supplies?"  Yup, all the other guys tack on stuff to your bill."  The margin we lost on shop supplies (we made our cost) was well worth the giant increase in volume.

Why did we do that?  Because 99% of consumers hate surprises.  They pick out there dream fridge only to get dinged for delivery, etc.  Cars, the same thing.  Adding $395 to my bill sucks.  I looked at the MSRP online and expect to see that price.  Sure, I KNOW THAT IT'S SUGGESTED, but who cares?

I go to sign the deal and the numbers are different.  Huh?  Etching.  Oh, cripes.  Admin fees.  Crap.  I thought we were there, and now you pull this ?  Adios.  I don't know what's happening, but for some reason the Toyota dealer we bought the 'Rolla from did NONE of this.  None.  No admin fee, no etching, no "protection package" or other BS.  What a relief.  We stated from the $20,720 point that I had found online.

I know that they make money, but I think sometimes it's in spite of themselves.  I look at car dealers from the standpoint that I did when working with many companies, and I laugh.  They're like a "how not to do it" example.

[johngenx]

2 identical cars: one is $22,000 including a $1000 admin fee. The other is $22500 including $0 admin fee. So your hero is going to buy the second car on principle?
Riiight.....

It usually looks like this:

2 identical cars.  Th MSRP is $22,000 and then one dealer has a $795 admin fee.  Now one car is $22,795.  The other dealer has a $395 admin fee and $495 in etching.  Now the other car is $22,890.

I hate both deals as I was expecting $22,000 from the MSRP.

[Cord]

I hate both deals as I was expecting $22,000 from the MSRP.

So stand by your principles and don't buy either.

Or you could go in and say,"I saw on the internet that MSRP is $22,000 and that's all I'm prepared to pay plus the tax."

I realize it's much more fun for a chest beater to wait for something they know is coming and then complain about it.

[johngenx]

I hate both deals as I was expecting $22,000 from the MSRP.

So stand by your principles and don't buy either.

Or you could go in and say,"I saw on the internet that MSRP is $22,000 and that's all I'm prepared to pay plus the tax."

And that's what I did.  And that's why the first new car in a long time for us is the Corolla.  As for being clear upfront, I am.  At the Nissan dealer, I as clear that I might pay sticker (hey, it's a Versa, the margins are small, the sticker is a fair price) but, oh, no, I won't be.  They don't budge, I leave, they lost a sticker price deal 'cause some other buyerwill pay their inflated price.  Business is good, so I'm priced out of the market.  It's how it works.

Then the salesperson calls me three times (she did) and can't understand why I won't pay the fees.  How dare I lose my precious Versa for $1000?  I suggest that if $1K is peanuts to her, she should pay it for me.

[Cord]

And that's what I did.

Well, WTF? If someone does that then this can't happen (unless the people you are talking to are deaf):

Well, I guess I'm a blowhard/chest beater, 'cause when I sit down and $395 has magically appeared as an "admin" fee as well as other stuff that wasn't on the contract 10 minutes ago, I feel like I'm being shafted.

[johngenx]

And that's what I did.

Well, WTF? If someone does that then this can't happen (unless the people you are talking to are deaf):

Well, I guess I'm a blowhard/chest beater, 'cause when I sit down and $395 has magically appeared as an "admin" fee as well as other stuff that wasn't on the contract 10 minutes ago, I feel like I'm being shafted.

No, they just act like they are.

Me: I would be willing to pay the MSRP, but no admin or other fees.
Them: OKay, let's write it up.
Me: Hey, what's this... (admin fee and etching and all the other crap is on there and the car is much higher than MSRP)
Them: Oh, AMVIC says we have to charge that.  (direct quote)
Me: Huh?
Them : AMVIC says whatever one customer pays, they all pay.
Me: I think you're confused, but regardless, that is more than I'm willing to pay, goodbye.

The next day they call me and wonder why I'm not buying the car.  "Too much money."
"Hey, you're going to lose out on the car over a measly $1100?"
"Yes."

Two more calls like that before it stops.