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Schmengie
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 05:48:04 pm » |
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Mitlov, you TOTALLY missed my point. Fun to drive cars are great, and driving hard is great in the right circumstances. Fun cars don't have to be great, hulking V8 dinosaurs, a point the world outside NA got decades ago. These things will be pretty much extinct in a few years with only the rich able to afford to drive them. Anyone care to make a substantial bet otherwise?
We don't need to bet otherwise. The proof is in Europe, where in spite of $5.00/L gasoline, vehicles like the 300C SRT8 still exist.  As for "small cars" with good fuel economy even when pushed... why don't you ask SIVIC what happens to the gas gauge in his Civic Si when he leans onto VTEC? Or benhaze what happens when he hits boost in his MazdaSpeed6? No one said a car needs a big V8 to be fun to drive, so I really don't know where you're coming from there... I'm not saying that, either. All I'm saying is that if fun-to-drive and able to carry passengers are your main criteria, the 300C is total overkill. Sure, they exist in Europe but they're an in-your-face exception to the rule over there, unlike here. They're not driven by the average motorist either because of the massive costs involved, and not just in fuel.
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' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson
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Cord
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 06:21:29 pm » |
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As for "small cars" with good fuel economy even when pushed... why don't you ask SIVIC what happens to the gas gauge in his Civic Si when he leans onto VTEC? Or benhaze what happens when he hits boost in his MazdaSpeed6?
My 0.6L motorcycle will drop to about 15L/100km when ridden hard at the track.  |
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Mitlov
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 10:22:34 pm » |
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I'm not saying that, either. All I'm saying is that if fun-to-drive and able to carry passengers are your main criteria, the 300C is total overkill. Sure, they exist in Europe but they're an in-your-face exception to the rule over there, unlike here. They're not driven by the average motorist either because of the massive costs involved, and not just in fuel.
You mean the 300C will become a niche vehicle? It already is one. Most Americans who buy passenger cars buy FWD midsize sedans, not V8 RWD large sedans. V8 sedans may not be a mass-market choice in Europe, but they're hardly unheard of, and in fact they're a point of pride with the European auto industry. What to the C-Class, 3-Series, A4, E-Class, 5-Series, 6-Series, and XF have in common? They are ALL available with V8 petrol engines. About your assertion that Dodge will have to give this up and learn how to build small fun-to-drive cars...Chrysler is the wrong American company to bash if you want to bemoan the relative lack of domestic sport compacts. Ever heard of a Dodge Omni GLH? Dodge Neon SRT4? Dodge Caliber SRT4? Even the PT Cruiser is available with a turbo four... |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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ilovecables
Learner's Permit
 OfflineVehicle: 2004 Kia Amanati
Gender: 
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 125
 
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2008, 06:02:21 am » |
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Remeber that commercial where Dad takes son with new car out to the barn in the back, and under a cover is hiding a Super Bird? End line of the ad is Dad saying "don't cha just love that sound". That's what buying a RWD with a v8 is all about - THE SOUND. Who gives a turkey what mileage you're getting?  |
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Schmengie
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2008, 07:19:39 pm » |
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I'm not saying that, either. All I'm saying is that if fun-to-drive and able to carry passengers are your main criteria, the 300C is total overkill. Sure, they exist in Europe but they're an in-your-face exception to the rule over there, unlike here. They're not driven by the average motorist either because of the massive costs involved, and not just in fuel.
You mean the 300C will become a niche vehicle? It already is one. Most Americans who buy passenger cars buy FWD midsize sedans, not V8 RWD large sedans. V8 sedans may not be a mass-market choice in Europe, but they're hardly unheard of, and in fact they're a point of pride with the European auto industry. What to the C-Class, 3-Series, A4, E-Class, 5-Series, 6-Series, and XF have in common? They are ALL available with V8 petrol engines. About your assertion that Dodge will have to give this up and learn how to build small fun-to-drive cars...Chrysler is the wrong American company to bash if you want to bemoan the relative lack of domestic sport compacts. Ever heard of a Dodge Omni GLH? Dodge Neon SRT4? Dodge Caliber SRT4? Even the PT Cruiser is available with a turbo four... If the 300C's a niche vehicle, so are the others. The GLH, the Neon and Caliber SRT4's, even the PT Cruiser Turbo were and are quite rare, the 300C Hemi on the other hand seem quite common. I had a stock '00 Neon so I know Chrysler can make fun-to-drive small cars, but it seems to have given that up. The Caliber SRT4 is heavy and ponderous compared to the lightning-quick Neon version. |
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' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson
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Mitlov
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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2008, 07:49:02 pm » |
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If the 300C's a niche vehicle, so are the others. The GLH, the Neon and Caliber SRT4's, even the PT Cruiser Turbo were and are quite rare, the 300C Hemi on the other hand seem quite common. I had a stock '00 Neon so I know Chrysler can make fun-to-drive small cars, but it seems to have given that up. The Caliber SRT4 is heavy and ponderous compared to the lightning-quick Neon version.
Yep, ALL performance cars are niche cars. And that's just as true in Europe as it is here. Let's remember how this all got started--you said that "big V-8 engines are on the way out" and "These things are a throw-back to a bygone era, and it's time we admitted it." You then tried to make a distinction between the North American and European markets by saying "Fun cars don't have to be great, hulking V8 dinosaurs, a point the world outside NA got decades ago." The fact is, when you're talking performance cars, you've got big V8s and little turbo fours on both sides of the pond. Trying to say that Chrysler is somehow behind the times compared to the rest of the world, when the rest of the world still offers niche cars just like this one, is just plain inaccurate in my opinion. |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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airbalancer
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« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2008, 07:51:19 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings |
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ilovecables
Learner's Permit
OfflineVehicle: 2004 Kia Amanati
Gender:
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 125
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2008, 03:43:46 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings
You're kidding right? |
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No ads, no talk, just great tunes! Tune into Unity Radio using Winamp HERE! |
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tpl
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2008, 03:54:49 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings
Nope. CHEAP cars can be made safer by adding mass. Elegantly engineered cars ( which often means not cheap) can be made safe and light at the same time. |
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It is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
Lord Palmerston
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ilovecables
Learner's Permit
OfflineVehicle: 2004 Kia Amanati
Gender:
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 125
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2008, 04:06:30 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings
Nope. CHEAP cars can be made safer by adding mass. Elegantly engineered cars ( which often means not cheap) can be made safe and light at the same time. Maybe 20 years ago - A Smart Car is just as safe as any other car in it's price range, regardless of size. Within reason of course. |
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No ads, no talk, just great tunes! Tune into Unity Radio using Winamp HERE! |
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Turbo Bob
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2008, 04:59:18 pm » |
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The proof is in Europe, where in spite of $5.00/L gasoline, vehicles like the 300C SRT8 still exist. Who is paying $5/L? I'm certainly not... And the reason that the 300C is relatively rare over here is due to the crap interior and shoddy build quality, not the fuel consumption. Although I see a couple a week, normally blinged up with ridiculously oversized chrome alloys. |
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Power is how fast you hit the wall... Torque is how far you take the wall with you!  |
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Sir Osis of Liver
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2008, 08:00:09 pm » |
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They see me rollin', they hatin'....  |
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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. –
Carl Sagan
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airbalancer
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2008, 09:21:26 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings
You're kidding right? Air bags , side door beams add weight Smart car only seats 2, Neon & Caliber seat 4 What you want all cars made of carbon fiber |
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The Mighty Duck
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« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2008, 01:13:04 am » |
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Who is paying $5/L? I'm certainly not...
When I was in Britain three or so years ago I seem to recall gas prices in the £2.25 region? £2.50 ~= $5.00 Canadian... or do you folks still measure gasoline in gallons? In which case, you're right, $5.00/L is not accurate |
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Demosthenes [noun], dem-aws-thene-s
1) (384 BC – 322 BC) the greatest of the Ancient Greek orators
2) pseudonym used by Valentine Wiggin in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game to alter the events of world history
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Mitlov
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« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2008, 03:02:45 am » |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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si
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2008, 05:06:36 am » |
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Who is paying $5/L? I'm certainly not...
When I was in Britain three or so years ago I seem to recall gas prices in the £2.25 region? £2.50 ~= $5.00 Canadian... or do you folks still measure gasoline in gallons? In which case, you're right, $5.00/L is not accurate 1 uk gallon = 4.54L. Peaking prices of 5 pounds for 4.54 litres isn't outrageous at all. |
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ilovecables
Learner's Permit
OfflineVehicle: 2004 Kia Amanati
Gender:
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 125
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2008, 12:27:04 pm » |
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Which is a safer car Neon or Caliber?
Cars have had to get heavy to increase the cash ratings
You're kidding right? Air bags , side door beams add weight Smart car only seats 2, Neon & Caliber seat 4 What you want all cars made of carbon fiber  |
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No ads, no talk, just great tunes! Tune into Unity Radio using Winamp HERE! |
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Turbo Bob
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2008, 03:37:23 pm » |
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Who is paying $5/L? I'm certainly not...
When I was in Britain three or so years ago I seem to recall gas prices in the £2.25 region? £2.50 ~= $5.00 Canadian... or do you folks still measure gasoline in gallons? In which case, you're right, $5.00/L is not accurate 1 uk gallon = 4.54L. Peaking prices of 5 pounds for 4.54 litres isn't outrageous at all. Yes, it's over $11 a gallon, but the original post was referring to litres, or is it liters? |
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Power is how fast you hit the wall... Torque is how far you take the wall with you! |
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Iso Octane
Auto Obsessed
OfflineVehicle: G35, Miata
Gender:
Location: Toronto
Posts: 674
to the beat of the different drum
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2008, 04:00:12 pm » |
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They see me rollin', they hatin'.... "SUPERSTARS, the new race series based on an Italian Championship and on an international calendar approved by FIA... ZAKSPEED’s first racecar to be developed and to be built for SUPERSTARS will be based on a CHRYSLER 300C SRT 8." That. Is. Awesome. |
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