Topic: CTC Review: 2008 Audi A3 S-Line

[Schmengie]

Yes the GTI has the 2.0T you have to compare the A3 2.0T to it -- they are very similar in price at that point as well.

Maybe you're right, but the article DID raise the comparison. I went to the respective websites and priced a comparably-equipped GTI ($35,285)and 2.0 A3($43,000). The DSG transmission can't be ordered with the 2.0 A3 but is included in the GTI's price because that's the only automatic available.

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

[vdk]

The S-Tronic is the Audi DSG and it's there. 

[Mitlov]

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

Essentially the same car?  Very significant differences in interior materials, sound deadening, seats, etc.  Probably better sound system in the Audi as well.  Yes, there's some premium for a badge, but it's certainly not all of that $7,715.

[Schmengie]

The S-Tronic is the Audi DSG and it's there. 

You're right. of course. My bad.

[Schmengie]

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

Essentially the same car?  Very significant differences in interior materials, sound deadening, seats, etc.  Probably better sound system in the Audi as well.  Yes, there's some premium for a badge, but it's certainly not all of that $7,715.

That was quoted from the article. The A3 2.0T is built on the same platform, has the same engine and apparently the same transmission as the GTI. The rest of it's just badge engineering - you're riding the same horse, it's just a bit better groomed, and the A3 still looks like a little station wagon. Doesn't seem worth the steep premium over the GTI, but that's just my opinion.

[Mitlov]

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

Essentially the same car?  Very significant differences in interior materials, sound deadening, seats, etc.  Probably better sound system in the Audi as well.  Yes, there's some premium for a badge, but it's certainly not all of that $7,715.

That was quoted from the article. The A3 2.0T is built on the same platform, has the same engine and apparently the same transmission as the GTI. The rest of it's just badge engineering - you're riding the same horse, it's just a bit better groomed, and the A3 still looks like a little station wagon. Doesn't seem worth the steep premium over the GTI, but that's just my opinion.

There's a lot more to a car than just the platform and drivetrain.  Maybe rrocket or articsteve can give an itemized list of what a Lexus ES offers over a V6 Camry?  It's the same sort of thing.

[Schmengie]

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

Essentially the same car?  Very significant differences in interior materials, sound deadening, seats, etc.  Probably better sound system in the Audi as well.  Yes, there's some premium for a badge, but it's certainly not all of that $7,715.

That was quoted from the article. The A3 2.0T is built on the same platform, has the same engine and apparently the same transmission as the GTI. The rest of it's just badge engineering - you're riding the same horse, it's just a bit better groomed, and the A3 still looks like a little station wagon. Doesn't seem worth the steep premium over the GTI, but that's just my opinion.

There's a lot more to a car than just the platform and drivetrain.  Maybe rrocket or articsteve can give an itemized list of what a Lexus ES offers over a V6 Camry?  It's the same sort of thing.

If you looked at the spread between the actual cost of building a Lexus ES vs a V6 Camry, or between the A3 2.0T and the GTI I wouldn't at all be at all surprised to find they're pretty similar and totally unlike the spread between their actual purchase prices. A huge percentage of  engineering and manufacturing costs are related to the most complex and difficult to manufacture components, which are the engine, drivetrain, suspension, etc and their associated  control hard/software. Changing body panels and interior components are long-established processes and are relatively straight forward and cheap to do because the underlying platform in a lot of cases is left untouched or only slightly modified. Don't forget, most of these luxo-vehicles ar NOT engineered from the ground up and almost always are based on a much-cheaper platform. Every time I see a Lexus go by, I never fail to see the Toyota just under the skin. Cheers!

[MKII]

Yes the GTI has the 2.0T you have to compare the A3 2.0T to it -- they are very similar in price at that point as well.

Maybe you're right, but the article DID raise the comparison. I went to the respective websites and priced a comparably-equipped GTI ($35,285)and 2.0 A3($43,000). The DSG transmission can't be ordered with the 2.0 A3 but is included in the GTI's price because that's the only automatic available.

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

The apples to apples comparo is the R32 which I believe is 500 pounds lower price in the UK then the A3 S-line.

[Mitlov]

Yes the GTI has the 2.0T you have to compare the A3 2.0T to it -- they are very similar in price at that point as well.

Maybe you're right, but the article DID raise the comparison. I went to the respective websites and priced a comparably-equipped GTI ($35,285)and 2.0 A3($43,000). The DSG transmission can't be ordered with the 2.0 A3 but is included in the GTI's price because that's the only automatic available.

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

The apples to apples comparo is the R32 which I believe is 500 pounds lower price in the UK then the A3 S-line.

In the States, the R32 is $32,990 and the A3 S-Line is $34,915.  A very reasonable price difference considering the Audi's interior materials upgrade and two extra doors.

[Wolfe]

Still a very significant price difference of $7,715 for essentially the same car IMHO. On top of that, the GTI at least looks like a hot hatch. The A3 looks like a mini-station wagon, as nice as it is.

Essentially the same car?  Very significant differences in interior materials, sound deadening, seats, etc.  Probably better sound system in the Audi as well.  Yes, there's some premium for a badge, but it's certainly not all of that $7,715.

That was quoted from the article. The A3 2.0T is built on the same platform, has the same engine and apparently the same transmission as the GTI. The rest of it's just badge engineering - you're riding the same horse, it's just a bit better groomed, and the A3 still looks like a little station wagon. Doesn't seem worth the steep premium over the GTI, but that's just my opinion.

There's a lot more to a car than just the platform and drivetrain.  Maybe rrocket or articsteve can give an itemized list of what a Lexus ES offers over a V6 Camry?  It's the same sort of thing.

Right, because when VW does it it isn't something as squalid as badge engineering it's the much more respectable practice of platform sharing.

[Mitlov]

Right, because when VW does it it isn't something as squalid as badge engineering it's the much more respectable practice of platform sharing.

And if I went around this forum, continually tearing into Lexus for the ES and Acura for the TL, you'd have grounds to call me a hypocrite.  But I don't.  To the contrary, I just said it was no different than what Lexus does, so you have absolutely no grounds to insinuate that I hold VW/Audi to a different standard.

[Thinking Out Loud]

 

I would limit 'badge engineering' labels to vehicles where (essentially) if you were to take the front and rear clips off, the balance of the body and interior is essentially identical and perhaps some mechanical mods - G5/Cobalt, Civic/CSX etc. 

The ES, TL, and A3 may all have a common base - aka platform sharing - but everything else intrinsic to the brand is specific and distictive. 

You'd never mistake a Volvo S40 for a Mazda 3, but they share DNA, for example, and at 5 paces the Civic and CSX are largely indistinguishable save the 'badges'. And Honda has done a great job blurring the lines in the badge with their "H" come "A" logo.

Not necessarily a Websters Dictionary definition, but my 2 cents.

[Loudpedal]

I would limit 'badge engineering' labels to vehicles where (essentially) if you were to take the front and rear clips off, the balance of the body and interior is essentially identical and perhaps some mechanical mods - G5/Cobalt, Civic/CSX etc. 

The ES, TL, and A3 may all have a common base - aka platform sharing - but everything else intrinsic to the brand is specific and distictive. 

I fully agree.  If the trunk, doors and hood can be bolted to the "other" brands car, I'd call it badge engineering. 

[dave81]

The A3 is nice for sure, but you can get a nicely optioned Mercedes C350 or Lexus IS30 for the same price. Unless you really needed a hatchback I know which I'd choose...