Author Topic: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear  (Read 10001 times)

Offline RunsinLight

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Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« on: May 10, 2008, 01:22:53 pm »
Most people I see either leave the car in first gear or neutral with parking on. I do both, first gear and parking brake. There isn't any harm in this is there?

Offline tpl

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 01:32:29 pm »
Neutral and parking brake away from home.   1st gear and no brake when in the garage at home
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Offline Leviathan

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 02:35:42 pm »
First or reverse gear with front tires directed appropriately if on a hill. Always use the brake.
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Offline dr_spock

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 09:28:16 pm »
Most people I see either leave the car in first gear or neutral with parking on. I do both, first gear and parking brake. There isn't any harm in this is there?

I use both all the time.   It is safer in case one of the two somehow fails like brake cable snap or kids accidentally knock the shifter out of gear.   Also it is less of headache not having to pay for damages to other people's property should the car rolls away and crashes into something.


Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 11:05:15 pm »
No working parking brake on the truck for 15 years. I leave it in 1st, and if the parking spot is especially steep kick a rock under a tire as engine compression (especially on an older vehicle) will only hold so much.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2008, 10:13:12 am »
I try to use both.  Just after we bought our car the GF left the car in neutral with the e-brake unset.  Naturally the car rolled forward down the very slight grade and hit a wrought iron fence.  Ever since then I've made it a habit to set both.

The other thing I do before getting out is depress in the clutch after setting the emergency brake to remove the stress placed on the transmission.  I have no idea if it makes a difference, but it makes me feel better.
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Offline erich

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2008, 11:23:01 am »
1st gear/reverse will lock the front wheels (as most cars are FWD) and parking brake will lock the rear wheels (again there are exceptions), so  always use both. SAAB solved part of the problem for me, as the key can be removed only with the gear in reverse.
I also use the parking brake on AT cars, as the gear in P can also slip.

Offline dr_spock

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2008, 10:52:44 pm »
Here's a good reason to use your parking brakes.  :)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d0b_1193335246&p=1

Offline rrocket

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2008, 10:55:44 pm »
^^^^Or having the car in 1st gear...(he was in neutral)
How fast is my Supra?  I sh*t on Cessnas from a roll....

Offline xviper

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2008, 11:56:45 pm »
First or reverse gear with front tires directed appropriately if on a hill. Always use the brake.
This is the best and most applicable advice.  For those driving schools that still teach manual transmission driving, this is what is taught.  It's the right way and the safest way.  Utilize everything your vehicle is equipped with to maximize safety.

1st gear/reverse will lock the front wheels (as most cars are FWD) and parking brake will lock the rear wheels (again there are exceptions), so  always use both. SAAB solved part of the problem for me, as the key can be removed only with the gear in reverse.
I also use the parking brake on AT cars, as the gear in P can also slip.
Doesn't matter if it's FWD or RWD, best routine is still using both ebrake and leaving it in 1st or reverse, turn steering wheel appropriately when on a hill.  The use of the park brake on an automatic car is also well advised.  This may be the only time that the ebrake is ever operated.  If you never use it, the cable can easily seize inside the sheath so that when you really do need to use it, it will not operate smoothly.  Additionally, the parking brake portion of a rear disc brake assembly is usually a separate mechanism.  Again, if you never use it, the moving parts of this mechanism can easily seize.  Regular use like when parking, is a good thing for it.

The other thing I do before getting out is depress in the clutch after setting the emergency brake to remove the stress placed on the transmission.  I have no idea if it makes a difference, but it makes me feel better.
If you set the ebrake after you've stopped, then take your foot off the brake to see that the ebrake is applied enough, then shut the engine off in gear and lift off the clutch, there should be no weight on the tranny.  However, consider that your drivetrain (including the transmission) is made to have the full power of your engine shoved through it to move the mass of your car, having the tranny gears hold the weight of the car on a hill is still pretty insignificant.

Offline barrie1

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 07:20:20 pm »
Useing the E-brake is one of the smartest things you can do as most folks have them seized under their vehicle from lack of usage. They end up paying a small fortune when they sell the vehicle as they are part of a safety check that the owner is responsible for when dealing their car or truck. About the only time not to use it is when its freezing outside with very moist conditiuons as it can freeze in the ON position which will cause you serious problems until its thawed out.  :)

Offline curls

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 07:32:34 pm »
Use at least one, preferably both.  The reason is, you don't want to be the owner of the red car when I come out to see my car like this, ESPECIALLY when I was already rushed for time to pick up my daughter from daycare, and the red car boxed me in completely:



(No damage, and the lady was pregnant, so I blamed it on baby-brain and was the nice guy and just asked her to move the car... asap. ;))
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Offline mar1990

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2008, 08:18:58 pm »
The use of the park brake on an automatic car is also well advised.  This may be the only time that the ebrake is ever operated.  If you never use it, the cable can easily seize inside the sheath so that when you really do need to use it, it will not operate smoothly. 

Thats not been my experience.  Every car I've owned, save one,  has had to have at least 1 brake cable replaced.  That includes the high quality 03 Corolla I've owned.  Yes, its used every day.


Offline gosteelerz

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2008, 09:09:34 pm »
The use of the park brake on an automatic car is also well advised.  This may be the only time that the ebrake is ever operated.  If you never use it, the cable can easily seize inside the sheath so that when you really do need to use it, it will not operate smoothly. 

Thats not been my experience.  Every car I've owned, save one,  has had to have at least 1 brake cable replaced.  That includes the high quality 03 Corolla I've owned.  Yes, its used every day.



That's weird, I have never had to replace one in any car, even in my poor quality '93 Elantra.  I know a lot of people reef on their handbrake instead of pulling it up gently until it reaches full tension.

Offline xviper

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2008, 09:41:20 pm »
The use of the park brake on an automatic car is also well advised.  This may be the only time that the ebrake is ever operated.  If you never use it, the cable can easily seize inside the sheath so that when you really do need to use it, it will not operate smoothly. 

Thats not been my experience.  Every car I've owned, save one,  has had to have at least 1 brake cable replaced.  That includes the high quality 03 Corolla I've owned.  Yes, its used every day.


I'm not following what you're trying to say here.  What has not been your experience?
-- You don't use your ebrake on your auto car?
-- That is not the only time you use the ebrake (when parked)?
-- You always use it and it still seized?
Please explain what isn't your experience.

Naturally, if you use your ebrake regularly, the cable will stretch to some degree.  That's what the adjustment nut is for.  You adjust it as it gets a bit stretched so as to keep the same number of "clicks" to engage the parking brake enough to hold the car.  In the lifetime of the average car, if you are using the ebrake only enough to hold the car's weight on whatever incline you park on, the cable stretch should be minimal (unless you park on a severe incline) and thus, periodic adjustment is all you need.  The cable "should" last a reasonable amount of time.  However, if you are in the habit of yanking that ebrake (or pushing it with your foot if that's what you have) as hard as you can, then it will stretch beyond it's normal operational wear and tear.  If this is the case, that's not a problem with the ebrake cable.  That becomes an issue to do with the operator.
On every car I've ever owned, using the ebrake when parked has been a habitual thing.  I have never had to make more than one adjustment in the cable slack during the ownership period, let alone having the replace the cable(s).  There is something about your ebrake use regimen that needs to be detailed.  Something is not right.

Offline mar1990

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2008, 10:23:03 pm »
Sorry about that, I will try to be clearer.

I have had to replace the brake cables on the last 2 of 3 manual transmission cars (small cars) due to seizing, and on a minivan (automatic) due to stretching. I've owned several other cars that I won't include because they were fairly old cars (>8 years old) and I didn't have a history with them (and I can't remember the details :) ).

My driveway is an incline, so I always use the handbrake on all cars to take the weight off the engine/transmission when parked. I need to pull on the handbrake or else the car will creep forward until the transmission/engine holds the car. The minivan has considerable weight, so the handbrake has to pulled up quite a bit.

It is not adjustable, so eventually it will stretch beyond use, and there is nothing I can do to adjust it other than back up and hit the brakes to get the rear brakes to self adjust slightly.

Of the manual cars, same parking scenario applies.  On two of those cars (including the Corolla), the brake cable has seized, so the wheel drags.

Offline xviper

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2008, 10:44:42 pm »
Sorry about that, I will try to be clearer.

I have had to replace the brake cables on the last 2 of 3 manual transmission cars (small cars) due to seizing, and on a minivan (automatic) due to stretching. I've owned several other cars that I won't include because they were fairly old cars (>8 years old) and I didn't have a history with them (and I can't remember the details :) ).

My driveway is an incline, so I always use the handbrake on all cars to take the weight off the engine/transmission when parked. I need to pull on the handbrake or else the car will creep forward until the transmission/engine holds the car. The minivan has considerable weight, so the handbrake has to pulled up quite a bit.

It is not adjustable, so eventually it will stretch beyond use, and there is nothing I can do to adjust it other than back up and hit the brakes to get the rear brakes to self adjust slightly.

Of the manual cars, same parking scenario applies.  On two of those cars (including the Corolla), the brake cable has seized, so the wheel drags.

Thanks for clearing that up.  Now I understand.
Unfortunately, parking on a significant incline does tend to put more wear and tear on the parking brake system and the first thing that shows itself is the cable.  If the park brake is actuated heavily, the cable can put a groove in the sheath where it takes a turn.  Usually, that groove is on the inside of the curve in the cable sheath.  This groove can then build up debris and cause the cable to bind.  Also, along with the added stretching of the cable from heavy tension, that groove makes it seems like the cable has stretched even more.
I'm surprised that you did not have some sort of adjustment on it.  I've never had a car that didn't have some sort of cable tightening ability.  They are generally located at the pull lever or the foot pedal OR under the car just before the cable splits left and right to each wheel.  As for the minivan, I think most of those have foot pedals and one tends to be able to put much more force on it than with your hand/arm.  I can see where that park brake would get stretched far more than say, a hand brake.  Of course, the weight of a minivan will come into play on the incline as well.
The seizing I originally spoke of refers to non-use and all the pivot points in the mechanism can get corroded and sticky.  The seizing you describe is from excessive wear and pressure.  I guess you're damned if you do and you're damned if you  don't.  At least when you do use it, you are adding one more safeguard against having your car roll away.  Remember that the "park brake" is also called the "emergency brake".  It would be a shame if the system failed at a time when you need it for an emergency.
As an aside, if you've just used your normal service brakes prior to parking and having heated them up, your park brake may fail as the brake parts cool down.  This has surprised many car owners who leave their cars in neutral, thinking that their vehicles are held safely by the park brake alone.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 08:02:41 am »
That reminded me of the Mitch Hedberg quote:

I'm always on the road, and I drive rental cars. Sometimes I don't know what's going on with the car, and I'll drive for ten miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake. What kind of emergency is this? I need to not stop now. It's not really an emergency brake, it's an emergency make-the-car-smell-funny lever.


Offline xviper

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 10:50:03 am »
That reminded me of the Mitch Hedberg quote:

I'm always on the road, and I drive rental cars. Sometimes I don't know what's going on with the car, and I'll drive for ten miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake. What kind of emergency is this? I need to not stop now. It's not really an emergency brake, it's an emergency make-the-car-smell-funny lever.


Well, there is a little light on the dash that should have given it away.  If you don't leave it on and heat it up, it's "supposed" to be able to stop the car if your service brakes fail.  In reality, you're supposed to downshift as much as you can (even in an automatic), then use the ebrake to bring the car to a final stop.
As for leaving the ebrake applied and driving, I can tell you a story of someone who did just that.  This person drove across the city (about 20 miles) and parked it in a covered parkade.  We (fire dept.) responded to a car with it's rear tire on fire.  It does generate quite a bit of heat.  The fire didn't start till the driver left for several minutes.  The moving vehicle provided enough air movement to keep the parts somewhat cool.

Offline Car_nut

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Re: Parking Brake vs 1st Gear
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2008, 03:14:10 pm »
For safety, always put manual transmission in gear and pull hand brake.  Just look at how many folks get killed in San Francisco by run-away car will convince you.

I learnt my lesson years ago when I used only the emergency brake (w/o putting the Civic in gear ) in a McDonlad parking lot. After I got my Big- Mac, I saw my car in front of MacDonald and I swear didn't park it there. Luckily no one get hurt and a concrete slab stop my car from crashing through the window.

Trust me, cable stretch or wear notwithstanding, use your emergency brake wherever you park and you won't regret.