Topic: Is Selling Cars A Great Career, Good Career, Or Crappy Career?

[Zoo]

Hi All,

 My search to get my sales career back on track is almost at a conclusion. One of the interesting options is car sales which I have long thought about getting into. However, it seems from the numbers I have been seeing that it is tough to make much more than $50000-$60000 per year unless you are one heck of a top performer.

  The sales manager I chatted with was very open and brutally honest with me about numbers, trailing comissions etc. It looks like the first few months would be pretty tough. It is a Mazda dealership and it seems like a pretty good team and I would be a good fit (and they would be a good fit for me).

  It just seems though that renumeration is not to the same level as other sales positions I have been checking out.

  Very interesting...

[mmret]

Sales is one of those professions that varies wildly in remuneration.

I know a guy who works for Air Liquide. Base salary around $60k, free Lexus SUV, and 15% commission (!!!!).

Cord can weigh in on how much car salesmen make, both for new and used. Take into account the Alberta premium too.

[2latecrew]

There are always exceptions lets just get this out of the way before one of the "exceptions" comes along and starts up.

BUT you need to look at the facts. If it were a good career then there would be a lot of "competition" for those positions. I mean those Pharma rep or Liquid Air rep jobs with 60k base salaries etc have many people competing for the positions, they have top notch people filling those positions who stay with the company for years because they make good money and are well treated. People tend not to want to give up GOOD jobs. Turnover in car sales is one of the highest of any industry. What does that tell you? The number of sales people that stay at one dealership for years let alone their entire career is tiny.

It might be an OK job but as a career id say its pretty crappy. Limited room for advancement where you going to go sales manager..I guess if that's your goal but where else within the company can you go? What kind of skills and training do you get throughout your career? Not much. If outside companies were looking to raid somewhere for new employees how high up are the local car dealership on the list?

I've sold many many products in many different types of jobs and environments: dry goods, frozen goods, wine and spirits, pharmaceuticals , office equipment, even worked for a brokerage that sold products for many different companies (with many different methods programs and philosophies). The worst of all those experiences CAR SALES. Yes there are exceptions I know some high end dealers like Mercedes or Porsche have long time well trained well compensated benefits etc sales staff. It is the exception.

I can see it as a stepping stone to better sales jobs. If you can deal with it and learn from it it can help and make other jobs seem eaiser and better but its a high risk (100% commission) low reward job in most cases. Also becuase of the internet and places like CCC its getting worse not better for salespeople.

It really depends on if you think you are an "exception" rather than the rule. It sounds like from your reasearch so far the answer is no.

[Cord]

I expect a new salesman to make about $40,000 in the first year, $60,000 in the second year, and then anywhere up to $120,000 after that. It sounds pretty good when I tell new hires that. The problem is that only a small percentage manage to get through the first 12 months. It can be extremely frustrating for a newbie in the first few months and most are gone during this time. For those that stay, it can be a very rewarding career in terms of income, challenge, teamwork, and novelty. It is very liberating to realize that you are the reason for getting or not getting a great pay cheque. The common theme I hear from those that have managed to stay in for a couple years is that they can't imagine ever punching a time clock again or just collecting the same pay week in and week out.

Of course, it's not all roses and sunshine. For a beginner the monthly income can fluctuate wildly during the first 18 months or so. I regularly see people go from making $6000-$7000 one month to making minimum wage the next. As you can imagine, it takes a relatively mature outlook to handle these highs and lows successfully.

It takes a certain amount of mental toughness to succeed also. I've seen many people start out so full of enthusiasm only to be crushed by the reality of dealing with the public in general.

I'm sure I could go on for hours. Feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer them. There are also a few others in the business around here and some that used to be in the business that I hope will chime in. A few different perspectives are always helpful.
 
edit: I should add that I am talking about used car sales above. IMO, new  cars is a whole different story.

[JSCC]

I am starting to lose it. 

Don't know if it is the change in brand or just my own attitute.
I just don't feel myself being in a "Zoom Zoom" mood. 
From what I have seen recently, Mazda3s don't provide the gross anywhere close to a Rabbit or Jetta.
The only way to compensate is with sales volume.

[footlong58]

Do any salesman/women usually have any post secondary education?  Probrblay not most...  I think a car salesman/woman probably thinks, it's sales or retail...   

[Cord]

I think a car salesman/woman probably thinks, it's sales or retail...

Could that be because it is retail sales?

Where I work about 1/4 of the sales staff have post secondary education. But then most of our staff is older, 40+.

[Scaerio]

I know nothing about this, but would guess that the choice of car brand you sell is a big factor.  I would assume that people can do really well selling Toyotas and Hondas, and probably not so well selling Suzukis and Mitsus...

[Cord]

I know nothing about this, but would guess that the choice of car brand you sell is a big factor.  I would assume that people can do really well selling Toyotas and Hondas, and probably not so well selling Suzukis and Mitsus...

You'd think so, but industry sales trends don't really transfer down to individual salespeople. If a super busy Toyota store sells 200 cars in a month but employs 20 salespeople, is each salesperson going to do better than the 30 car a month Suzuki store that has 2 salespeople?

[ghost]

Higher end brand dealerships are where its at. Larger margin, clients aren't as nit-picking to wheel and deal down to pennies. Who wants to boast to their buddies that they knocked off $560 off an M5 or 911? 
I think that for the most part, you are at the mercy of the potential buyer which can rob one off away from weekends and family time.

[jcon]

Higher end brand dealerships are where its at. Larger margin, clients aren't as nit-picking to wheel and deal down to pennies. Who wants to boast to their buddies that they knocked off $560 off an M5 or 911? 
I think that for the most part, you are at the mercy of the potential buyer which can rob one off away from weekends and family time.

People tend to lie about how much they spent for their house and car. For the house the price always increases, but for the car it always decreases.

I think you'd be surprised how much people of ALL demographics try to negotiate.

[Cord]

Higher end brand dealerships are where its at. Larger margin, clients aren't as nit-picking to wheel and deal down to pennies.

You think that people that buy more expensive cars tend to just throw their money away? Think again.

And larger margins doesn't automatically equate to higher income for a salesperson. Selling more vehicles does. If you can only sell 3 cars a month, you'll starve just as much at a Mercedes store as you will at a Dodge store.

I recently hired a salesperson coming from 5 years at a BMW dealership. He made the move because he said he couldn't stand the pretentious, demanding customers anymore.

[Craig]

My personal opinion is that there are far too many vehicle salespeople, and the average salesman is far too stupid to advise anyone on how to spend (or finance) a car purchase.  And as I learn more about cars, I have become underwhelmed by the car and financial knowledge of the average salesperson.  I understand there is only so much money in vehicle sales, and maybe I'm expecting too much, but I'd like to see half the number of salespeople in a dealership, and twice the credentials.

The last sales office I was in (Acura), the salesman had a certificate from Georgian College.  It was a single course certificate, listing the course as a 20 hour (iirc) course in car sales.

I would be embarrassed to hang that on my office wall.

Now, it didn't stop me from buying the car, but the experience was mildly frustrating, as the salesman could not deviate from his standard, memorized sales spiel.  I humoured myself by breaking his train of thought and pointing out the funny bits of his speech.  It was either that, or assault him with a stapler.

And maybe it's just my luck, but I rarely come across a car salesperson that I feel is both trustworthy and knowledgeable.  At least, few come to mind.  I don't want a song and dance about how good your car is, or what the monthly payment is - I just want to take a test drive, I want to know the car I want exists somewhere, I want to offer you a fair number, and I want you to accept or reject that number in less time than it would take to drive from Toronto to Hamilton.  Personally, I do my research before I set foot in a dealership, but if I need information, I don't want over-the-top hype.  I also don't want to talk about your kids, your mother, or your dog, regardless of how applicable any of those stories might be to the monetary difference between your offer and my own.  All the ridiculous negotiating techniques make me laugh or cringe.  Explain why my offer is too low without references to your mother, and I'm happy to listen.  If I agree with you, I may adjust up.  If I don't, I won't be buying today.  It's that simple.

How does this relate to car sales as a career?  Well, I wouldn't want to be a car salesman if it requires a personality transplant and an ability to memorize a sales pitch.  Maybe that's what sales is to some managers, but that approach has never worked with me.  Some older, long-term salesmen scare me.  I get the impression they've been acting this way for so long, they can't turn it off anymore.

With that rant, good luck.  I'd better stop now.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Just like any job, depends where and for whom you work.

I agree with a lot of what the 2 responses from 2latecrew and Cord relayed.

I worked in sales for only a short time, but it really opened my eyes to how a great many customers really are. Meaning not people who are pleasant to deal with, and often irrational. On the other hand some were fantastic and I came into work every day hoping to provide great service to them. Really, it was the management of the dealership that was most frustrating, so if you get along with the management style, sales strategies, and personalities of the dealership you're very far ahead IMO. But yes, it may take time to build the clientele needed to be truely successful where repeats and referrals are concerned.

[marineboy]

Man, I look at sales jobs as soul destroying. I worked various retail jobs in high school and lost my faith in people as basically intelligent and decent. I vowed never to work in sales again. I also could never sell something that a did not believe was a great product. Also no matter how long you've been with a company you're only as good as your last sale...
My hats off to those that can do that as a career.

Since the Internet came along and I'm always over researching my product purchases sales people have just become another obstacle between me and that purchase.

[rocko...]

hmmm based on the title... my answer would be all the above!  early on in my sales career.... the one liner used often ( not sure if it was mentioned above already)  is the 80/20 rule.  it holds true in all walks of life in the sales profession.... 80% make 20% of the $$$ while 20% make 80% of the money!  i wouldn't bet my life on those numbers, however the concept makes sense...

i know some pretty successful car sales people and they have put their time in and the repeat customers over the years is your bread and butter... your attitude has to be long term and not short term .... under promise and over service they always say....

i have been in financial planning for over ten years and i love the fact i can choose my own salary as well as my hours... i always thought i would be the six figure income guy, however, over the years i have settled into a routine that provides FUNds and allows me to take time off... frequently!

I do realize money makes the world go round, however, keep in mind it is important to find something you are pationate about and it won't feel like work.... most people who are passionate about something.... people tend to listen and you will create a following no matter what you sell!   and ironically enough.....  you will get paid very well for your services........

good luck!

[stodge]

The typical car salesperson is nothing short of a test drive companion and pen pusher from what I've seen. When the interesting stuff comes along, like bargaining and legal paperwork, they're out of the loop. So why even have them??

[2latecrew]

The typical car salesperson is nothing short of a test drive companion and pen pusher from what I've seen. When the interesting stuff comes along, like bargaining and legal paperwork, they're out of the loop. So why even have them??

This is an excellent point. Good for you for bringing it up. If you want to truly be a sales person as a career in car sales you would need to find a very good situation like Hondasalesguy has where he has some (or even considerable) ability to write his own deals. The typical run back and for tho the manager car salesperson is in my opinion not really a sales person. He's a messenger or an actor in a manipulation scheme. In every what I'd consider professional sales position I had I had clearly defined limits of authority , budgets etc. I knew how much I could discount, I had the ability to write promotional checks for up to 25k or I had promotional budgets ranging up over 100k. If the deal exceeds my limit yes I might have to go higher for approval. But before I made any presentation I could have a proposal and profitability picture for the client. I could make adjustments to fill their needs so I could make the deal work for them and me. You performed needs assessments overcame objections etc. But in most cases I was the one who would say yes or no.

Most car sales is nothing like that. Its partly why so few people stay as a long term career. The incentive structure of car sales is simply not conducive to long term relationship building. 1. No see no eat places a higher priority on a short term sale than it does on long term repeat business. Its not rocket science. You simply can't think about 3 years down the road when you haven't made a sale all month and the rent is due.
2. The repeat sales cycle is in most cases too long. You sell a car make a $400 commission and then need to wait 3 to 5 years before selling that client another? Too long. Not enough interaction with the client to do any kind of relationship selling.

Its not a partnership like selling Tabasco Sauce to a grocery chain that then resells the product to make a profit.

Mostly today my feeling is that the sales person in an automobile brings little to no value to the transaction. The services they perform are worth nothing to me: I don't want to pay someone to take my offer back and forth to the manager I would rather do my negotiations face to face with a decision maker, I don't need someone to tell me about the features of the vehicle I can read the brochures and go on the Internet just as well or better than a salesperson, I don't need to have someone run to a manager to calculate monthly payments I can punch numbers into a website. I don't need someone to sit in the car with me and talk while I test drive ..I have a wife.  ;DI certainly don't need someone to give me his biased view of why his car is better than the 3 other competitor vehicles that he's never even sat in let alone driven.

At least the annoying salespeople at Futureshop and best buy can help me carry the new TV to the car to earn their $ or push the buttons on the cash register.

Just think about it with an Internet info kiosk and an hourly paid sales clerk to supervise test drive procedures (check licence etc) and to ring in the purchase couldn't you still walk in , find out enough info to make an informed decision, pick your options (via Internet) figure out financing options and buy the car without any need for a "salesperson"?

It really is becoming an obsolete position slowly but surely.

[barrie1]

I am sure most of us could do these simple tricks just like they now have at Home Depot. They have check outs where you do it all including bag and pay and check all your goods out. Even virtually make you own change after paying the cash or useing one of your cards to complete the transactions. I still prefer to have a live human in front of me when I spend a large sum of cash on a newer toy. Gives me a better feeling of confidence in the product I am buying. 

[Zoo]

What I find interesting is that with many other products the person actually selling the product makes much more money than the person who produced the product. With automobiles the reverse seems to be the case. The skilled workers who manufacture the vehicles seem to make $60000 per annum or more, plus fantastic benefits etc.

The salespeople selling the car seem to work a lot of Saturdays, long hours and if they are very good will make upwards of $60000 or more with no guarantees at all.

As for the comments earlier in this thread about auto salespeople a fair number I talk to have post secondary education. I personally have 6 years of post secondary education (a B.A. with honours plus College); but I would not advertise that fact or put my degree and certificates above my desk. Seems kind of elitist to me.

I have 2 offers to sell cars, 2 offers to sell telecommunication products (one outside sales and business to business), a possible position selling insurance, and another possibility to do some office management and sales support for about 6 months before I move to an outside sales position.

At least I finally have some options!

I have completed my Phase 1 Real Estate course as well and wrote last Saturday so hopefully I will get my marks in another week or so.

It is nice to have some options at least!