Topic: CD Article: 2008 Toyota Highlander Hybrid

[Tentacles]

Only someone who knows nothing about hybrids would has such a silly question.

Check with the cab companies bud. There are too many articles on this well know popular trivia. With your high post count you should have know this by now.

 

Odd that you didn't back your comments up with facts.

Now, how about 'em?

Not odd at all. 
Me, doing your own work for you?  Sure, what do I get out of it?   I gave you a good clue bud, now cut your losses and do a little homework. 
It is embarrassing to be ignorant of the fleet studies from the taxi, courier companies and the feds. 

geesh

[Tentacles]

...One is complexity of the drive train which in no way can be more reliable than a straight gas or EV system...

Oye... my head hurts... too much wrong stuff...  I'll bite just one for now - just 2 help U out.

You folks know how to Google, right?  Course U do... here you go:

google "Andrew Grant Prius"
google "hybrid reliability"
google "canadian taxi fleets"
google "BC Hybrid fleet report"
google "Ford New your hybrid reliability"

<board won't let me post links>

PLEASE stop the ignorance, people.  If you do a search on your own you can get hundreds and hundreds of links and maybe you'll speak smarter next time  

[EV Dan]

so to offer an opinion based on logic one has to google 

[Tentacles]

so to offer an opinion based on logic one has to google 

In the medieval ages, the Earth "was flat" for most people or so the common logic dictated.  Debating the common logic does not work on this site; links and directions to enlightenment have a chance of workin' at least for the few that have the learning capacity. 

A suggestion to "google" is a good replacement for when one is not allowed to post links.   

[inco]

Cut and paste are you immediate solution then. Later you will be able to link and even post pix, but that comes with numbers - I think it's 10 posts of something close that allows you to do that.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I stand corrected.

Series Drivetrain
This is the simplest hybrid configuration. In a series hybrid, the electric motor is is the only means of providing power to get your wheels turning. The motor receives electric power from either the battery pack or from a generator run by a gasoline engine. A computer determines how much of the power comes from the battery or the engine/generator set. Both the engine/generator and regenerative braking recharge the battery pack. The engine is typically smaller in a series drivetrain because it only has to meet average driving power demands; the battery pack is generally more powerful than the one in parallel hybrids (see below) in order to provide remaining peak driving power needs. This larger battery and motor, along with the generator, add to the cost, making series hybrids more expensive than parallel hybrids.

While the engine in a conventional vehicle is forced to operate inefficiently in order to satisfy varying power demands of stop-and-go driving, series hybrids perform at their best in such conditions. This is because the gasoline engine in a series hybrid is not coupled to the wheels. This means the engine is no longer subject to the widely varying power demands experienced in stop-and-go driving and can instead operate in a narrow power range at near optimum efficiency. This also eliminates the need for a complicated multi-speed transmission and clutch. Because series drivetrains perform best in stop-and-go driving they are primarly being considered for buses and other urban work vehicles.

Parallel Drivetrain
Some up-and-coming hybrid models use a second electric motor to drive the rear wheels, providing electronic all-wheel drive that can improve handling and driving in bad weather conditions.With a parallel hybrid electric vehicle, both the engine and the electric motor generate the power that drives the wheels. The addition of computer controls and and a transmission allow these components to work together. This is the technology in the Insight, Civic, and Accord hybrids from Honda. Honda calls it their Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) technology. Parallel hybrids can use a smaller battery pack and therefore rely mainly on regenerative braking to keep it recharged. However, when power demands are low, parallel hybrids also utilize the drive motor as a generator for supplemental recharging, much like an alternator in conventional cars.

Since, the engine is connected directly to the wheels in this setup, it eliminates the inefficiency of converting mechanical power to electricity and back, which makes these hybrids quite efficient on the highway. Yet the same direct connection between the engine and the wheels that increases highway efficiency compared to a series hybrid does reduce, but not eliminate, the city driving efficiency benefits (i.e. the engine operates inefficiently in stop-and-go driving because it is forced to meet the associated widely varying power demands).

Series/Parallel Drivetrains
This drivetrain merges the advantages and complications of the parallel and series drivetrains. By combining the two designs, the engine can both drive the wheels directly (as in the parallel drivetrain) and be effectively disconnected from the wheels so that only the electric motor powers the wheels (as in the series drivetrain). The Toyota Prius has made this concept a popular, and a similar technology is also in the new Ford Escape Hybrid. As a result of this dual drivetrain, the engine operates at near optimum efficiency more often. At lower speeds it operates more as a series vehicle, while at high speeds, where the series drivetrain is less efficient, the engine takes over and energy loss is minimized. This system incurs higher costs than a pure parallel hybrid since it needs a generator, a larger battery pack, and more computing power to control the dual system. However, the series/parallel drivetrain has the potential to perform better than either of the systems alone.

http://www.hybridcenter.org/hybrid-center-how-hybrid-cars-work-under-the-hood-2.html

[airbalancer]

http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Reliability.htm
Maintenance Costs
The City of Toronto Fleet Services Division owns four Hybrids.  Their fleet consists of two 2001 Toyota Prius, one 2001 Honda Insight, and one 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid.  In their "Greening Our Fleet" Technology Testing Report the Fleet Services Division analyzed the preventative and non-scheduled maintenance costs for the Honda Insight and two Toyota Prius (there was not enough information available on the Honda Civic) compared to their four 2000 Chevrolet Cavaliers.   The Hybrids were found to have higher preventative maintenance costs but lower non-scheduled maintenance costs for their Cavaliers. 

The report states that the hybrids required a similar amount of preventative maintenance as the Cavalier and that the source of the higher costs was taking the hybrids to a certified dealer rather than having staff perform the maintenance in house.
 Vehicle Type Preventative Maintenance (Average $/100km) % Change Non-Scheduled Maintenance (Average $/100km) % Change
Comparison Vehicle-
Chevrolet Cavalier* $1.76            $2.69   
2001 Honda Insight $3.01 +71% $1.78 -34%
2001 Toyota Prius $2.21 +26%     $0.19 -93%
*Average of 4 Chevrolet Cavaliers     


Prius owners that are using the vehicles as high mileage taxi’s have commented that their brake replacement costs are much less due to the regenerative braking system. No comparative data is yet available to support this observation. Longer term there is a possibility that the gasoline engine in a hybrid may have a longer repair free life since, in some models, hours of use are less than in a comparable conventional vehicle. Only when tens of thousands of hybrids have been operated for many years and over 400,000 kilometres each will reliability issues become clear.

There  is a lot of spin going on
Where the info for the Civic

Maintenance cost are  high on hybrids, but lower on non scheduled is lower, fun how the age of the Cavalier are not included.

Do Hybrid have engine times?
Do not most people change oil, plugs on km, the that km would be the same for straight gas or hybrid
Brake wear ( and km/100) depends on the driver, some people go though brakes like crazy , other people do not.
I had my pads change on the truck at 130,000km, other people I know have them change at 60,000km
I would like to see a maintenance schedule for a Civic & Civic hybrid and see which is less costly
I believe most people will get the car service at a certain Km

I am not writing that hybrids are bad, but if you have more equipment and moving parts on the same car how can the maintenance be less.
It will take time to inspect the hybrid end, time is money

[chrischasescars]

Only when tens of thousands of hybrids have been operated for many years and over 400,000 kilometres each will reliability issues become clear.

That's more or less what I said earlier in this thread. This is a subject that can't really even be examined yet.