Topic: CD Article: 2008 Toyota Highlander Hybrid

[Autos_Editor]

Test Drive:


With outside temperatures ranging from zero to minus 25 Celsius, Winnipeg contributor Haney Louka found the Highlander Hybrid's fuel consumption considerably thirstier than Transport Canada's figures of 7.4 L/100 km city and 8.0 highway. "I averaged 14 L/100 km" he reports.

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[inco]

So when the weather turns nasty and the temperature drops the Highlander shuts down the hybrid side and simply goes along for the ride what with it's additional weight stored for the trip. Hmmn kinda defeats wanting to have one if one lives in our cold country. A fair weather friend only.

Good vehicle but maybe not meant for us northern folk and winter months.

[airbalancer]

That is very surprising

[widefire]

I'm not surprised by these results. My friend have a 2006 Civic Hybrid that makes the same mileage as I do with my 2006 std Civic during winter. But during summer, that's another story! Problem is, we are in "Winter mode" 8 months a year...

[sailor723]

Interesting.....I never realized that there was such a downside to hybrids in a Northern climate. It kind of makes you question the value of hybrids if you only get the benefit 6 or 7 months of the year. Does anyone know at what temperature hybrids stop working?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think Haney might have flubbed the hybrid definitions.

It's my understanding the "series" hybrids use both engine and electric motor all the time ie Honda,
"parallel" hybrids use either engine, electric motor or both.

Oftern wondered how hybrids worked in cold weather. In summer, at least the older Prius wouldn't shut down its engine if the AC was running. Seems that Spring and Fall are hybrid seasons.

[Matthew]

My father has a 2006 Highlander Hybrid and I have to say that while his mileage in the summer hovers around 7.6L/100km, in winter weather it's gone up to 8.9-10L /100km.  You must have been driving the pants off of that thing, or the new Highlander sucks, which based on its looks inside and out, I would have to say yes.  But his friend who has a 3.5L conventional Highlander complains of very poor mileage, about 18L/100km in this weather.  So I would not go bashing the hybrid system as it clearly works, when driven properly.  And besides any guy or gal that loves the feeling of tremendous acceleration should feel what the power of a V6 mated to two high torque electric motors feels like at full throttle.  ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!

I just bought a 2002 Toyota Prius this Saturday and sold my 1995 Geo Metro, and I can't believe this car.  I drove to buffalo yesterday and as of this morning in freezing weather (and almost 90% highway driving... I know its not were it does its best), I averaged 4.5L/100km!!!  Summer is going to be awesome for sure.

[Realist]

So wait, the article bashes the Highlander Hybrid based on assumptions, and not facts?

Shame on you Haney Louka. You admit that you weren't able to test a gas-powered Highlander in the same conditions, so how can you be so sure predicting what the gas Highlander's fuel economy would be like? In cold, winter conditions, ALL cars suffer, not just hybrids. My Honda minivan's fuel economy during winter drops quite dramatically.

You also got some vehicle specs wrong. The gas Highlander does NOT generate more overall torque than the hybrid version. You forgot that the Highlander Hybrid has tons of torque coming from the electric motors. The hybrid also is not primarily a FWD vehicle. It's an active 4wd system that provides traction when needed. It operates in FWD when traction is not needed to save fuel economy.

And no, the Europeans aren't right to focus on diesels. Have you looked at the price of diesel lately here in Canada as well as the US? Diesel is more expensive than gas right now. Let's also not forget the stink and messiness of diesel fuel that many North Americans just don't like.

One more thing, a hybrid vehicle will require less maintenance than a gas or diesel and over the long term a hybrid will save you money not just on fuel economy but maintenance as well.

[jcon]

And no, the Europeans aren't right to focus on diesels. Have you looked at the price of diesel lately here in Canada as well as the US? Diesel is more expensive than gas right now. Let's also not forget the stink and messiness of diesel fuel that many North Americans just don't like.

I thought the new diesel didn't stink as much? Nor was it as messy? And when did we, as North Americans, vote on whether we collectively wanted (or not) diesel engines?

And who cares about the price? Looks like 99% of the population can still afford to drive so the price of fuel must be cheap. Now if you're talking about curbing emissions for environmental reasons...

[airbalancer]

New Diesels cars do not stink
It was nice see really l/100km measurements for cold weather
a hybrid vehicle will require less maintenance than a gas or diesel
 Do you have information to back this up
Diesel is the about price as 91, Lexus  needs 91 in its gas engine

[chrischasescars]

And no, the Europeans aren't right to focus on diesels. Have you looked at the price of diesel lately here in Canada as well as the US? Diesel is more expensive than gas right now. Let's also not forget the stink and messiness of diesel fuel that many North Americans just don't like.

Did you forget that diesels get significantly better mileage than gas-powered vehicles? A diesel will probably still be less expensive to run than a comparable gas-powered vehicle. Laurance just tested an E 320 diesel and got great mileage: http://www.luxurycarcanada.ca/features/features_articles.php?fetch_feature_article=2008_mercedes-benz_e_320_bluetec.php&pass_title=2008%20Mercedes-Benz%20E%20320%20Bluetec
Try doing that in a gas-powered E 350.

Also, the gas-powered Highlander does indeed have more peak torque than the Hybrid model: 248 lb-ft versus 212. Had you taken 30 seconds to visit Toyota's website (the link is in the article, after all), you'd have known this.

And maybe this is just me, but if Europe's diesel-centric car-buying habits were wrong, why haven't they all rushed out to buy gas- and hybrid-powered cars?

I don't know that we'll know whether hybrids are less-expensive to maintain than a diesel until there are a whole bunch of really high-mileage hybrids running around.

[airbalancer]

Which will be more costly to maintain between HL & HL Hybrid mmmmm
Both have V6 gas engine so that the same, you have a generator  and two motors in the hybrid, that will have be serviced.
 I have not seen scheduled for a hybrid but there should be terminals checked as heating and cooling of the terminals will loosen connections.
I for one, is not to happy with my new Li-ion battery  drill, when I leave it outside in the cold truck
it does not hold a charge worth sh$t

[cruzzer]

It is very disappointing to find out that hybrids are so inefficient in the cold weather. Yet, this is inefficiency is only seen at cold to very cold temperatures. I wonder what percentage of Canada is at -25ºC on any given winter day and what percentage of the entire year this type of cold would be experienced. Even in the cold Canadian prairies, this would be considered a very cold day. In fact, as I checked the Environment Canada website, I cannot even find one single place in the entire country that is that cold, even tonight! Not even Iqualit, nor Whitehorse, not even Saskatoon. SO, even if at it's worst, the hybrid Highlander uses 2 litres less fuel to travel 100 Km, it is significant. AND, if during much or most of the rest of the entire year, it is getting TWICE as many many kilometers per litre, then it is a major saving of both fuel and emissions. Hopefully Toyota will continue to improve the performance of it's hybrids and reduce the cost differential to the less expensive traditional power sources as is happening in the USA more quickly than here in Canada.

I cannot agree with diesels being the answer. While the claims continue to be made about "clean diesels", I still feel ill when driving behind Mercedes Benz's, VW TDI's, city buses and dump trucks. Yes, maybe someday, they'll be truly "clean" but in my experience that hasn't yet happened.

[chrischasescars]

I agree that diesel's not necessarily "the" answer, but it's a means to an end. Hybrid tech is cool, for sure, but much of the problem lies in that many hybrid buyers don't know how to drive the cars to extract the maximum fuel economy out of them. Drive like you drive now, and you're not likely to meet the NRCan numbers in any weather.

Part of the problem is that NRCan's fuel consumption estimates are too optimistic and don't reflect real-world driving conditions, not for hybrid cars nor gas-powered vehicles nor diesels.

[jcon]

I cannot agree with diesels being the answer. While the claims continue to be made about "clean diesels", I still feel ill when driving behind Mercedes Benz's, VW TDI's, city buses and dump trucks. Yes, maybe someday, they'll be truly "clean" but in my experience that hasn't yet happened.

Driven in Europe? Or the NEW diesel engines?

[Tentacles]

...
a hybrid vehicle will require less maintenance than a gas or diesel
 Do you have information to back this up
...

Only someone who knows nothing about hybrids would has such a silly question.

Check with the cab companies bud. There are too many articles on this well know popular trivia. With your high post count you should have know this by now.

 

[Tentacles]

I think Haney might have flubbed the hybrid definitions.

It's my understanding the "series" hybrids use both engine and electric motor all the time ie Honda,
"parallel" hybrids use either engine, electric motor or both.

Oftern wondered how hybrids worked in cold weather. In summer, at least the older Prius wouldn't shut down its engine if the AC was running. Seems that Spring and Fall are hybrid seasons.

NO NO NO!!! 

Parallel hybrids have the motor connected to the engine's crankshaft (Honda).

Parallel/series hybrids must use a power split like device (PSD like in the Prius) and this way each power source can operate independently of each other.

[jcon]

Only someone who knows nothing about hybrids would has such a silly question.

Check with the cab companies bud. There are too many articles on this well know popular trivia. With your high post count you should have know this by now.

 

Odd that you didn't back your comments up with facts.

Now, how about 'em?

[airbalancer]

Only someone who knows nothing about hybrids would has such a silly question.

Check with the cab companies bud. There are too many articles on this well know popular trivia. With your high post count you should have know this by now.

 

Odd that you didn't back your comments up with facts.

Now, how about 'em?

I guess he has  seen the cab companies in Cobourg, I think they do zero maintenance 

[EV Dan]

As much as I like green everything I was always skeptical about hybrids. Two main reasons. One is complexity of the drive train which in no way can be more reliable than a straight gas or EV system.  It uses Ni-MH (not li-ion) batteries which loose some capacity overtime, not very efficient (around 70%) and thus require cooling. They dont last forever either and I would assume are pricey to replace. The second reason is hybrids are overweight. By over 100kg if I am not mistaken. Thats like hauling somebody of rather large proportions all the time; forget about cornering and other things.
All this if you ask me is too high a price to pay just to show off ( I heard statistics that a Prius doesnt even pay off the price premium over its life time). What p%#^es me off most is I figure if Toyota took a highlander, used more alum. alloy for the chassis and made the body out of fiberglass it would shed a few hundred kilos, would be able to use a 2.4 4cyl and be much more fun to drive. Either way hybrids are a transitional stage to plug in EVs. Once the batteries are LiFePO4 and become cheap hybrids will seem a bad dream.