Evap Error code P1457 on Accord

[slybry]

This problem goes back to a previous posting of about 3 months ago. Believe it or not I am still trying to fix this problem.

I got a check engine light on my 2000 Honda Accord and my mechanic said it is a Evap code 57.

He checked all 3 valves and solenoids (sorry I do not know the names) in system and changed the one that was not functioning. I believe that one was in engine compartment. The light came back on within a few days.

In later visits he has since change the other 2 valves. The light came back on each time since those were changed (same error code).

He has fogged the e-vap system and checked for leaks (None were found). I then changed the gas cap and the light keeps coming back on.

He is going crazy trying to find the proper fix. He does not know what else to do other than to now change the canister ($160 part). He is pulling at straws.

He has not charged me anything yet as he feels the problem should be fixed before I am expected to pay anything.

NOTE: Even with new gas cap I do not hear any pressure releasing when I open it  (I do on my Acura 1.6 which I heard a lot). Not sure if I ever heard it since new on this car.

Would anyone have any idea what might be the root of the problem.

If needed I can get all the names of the valves and solenoids that were changed from my mechanic next week.

[slybry]

Saw my Mechanic today to get better details. Here is what he has done and what he has changed.

In 3 seperate visits he has changed this in e-vap system:
- Purge Control Solenoid
- Vent solenoid
- By-Pass Valve

System has been smoke tested and pressure tested for leaks and none were found.

Gas cap was changed.

Next step will be to change the canister (because there is nothing else left) unless someone here has an idea of another approach to get ride of this re-occuring error code.

Pleasze respond even if you agree that canister should be changed. I would like to hear that so I would feel I might be on right track and not wasting more money.


This repair has been a 3 month long nightmare.
Thanks......

[MKII]

Sounds like your mechanic is doing the right things, from what I have read on many Honda tech forums.

P1457 won't make the car run bad at all. It just means the EVAP canister & the related system of hoses & valves isn't airtight.

Check this stuff in this order. As soon as you find something that doesn't behave like it should, fix or replace it. Then hope it was the only thing wrong with the system...

Some background for the electrical troubleshooting:
All the solenoid valves have constant +12v supply from the main relay. When the ECM wants to energize a valve, it closes the ground side of it's circuit. If the +12v supply is broken, then the ECM can't energize the valve. If the wire to the ECM is shorted to ground, then the valve is energized even when the ECM doesn't want it to be.

EVAP Purge Control valve - between intake manifold & valve cover.
Valve should be normally closed, so it will hold vacuum when it's not energized. Ground is supplied by pin A6 of the ECM to open the valve. So jumper pin A6 to ground, turn on the ignition, and check again - this time it should NOT hold vacuum.

EVAP 2-way valve - underneath the car roughly under the left-rear seat.
It's a little can with 3 hose barbs & a solenoid valve attached to it. Leave the connection on top, disconnect both on the side, attach MityVac to lower one. Normally open, when the solenoid valve is energized, it should hold vacuum.

EVAP Vent Shut valve - attached to the charcoal canister underneath the car.
Normaly open - when ECM closes pin A4 to ground, it should hold vacuum.

EVAP Charcoal Canister - the big can under the car, about under the left-rear seat.
Leak test: Connect all the hoses together, plug the Vent Shut valve, connect the MityVac. Pump vacuum while watching the fuel tank pressure (FTP) sensor. You can read FTP sensor voltage with a scan tool, or use a voltmeter between pins A29 & C18 at the ECM. Pump down to 1.5v & it should hold that vacuum for at least 20 seconds.

EVAP 2-way valve vacuum & pressure test.
If you get this far you'll want the manual for a good picture of how to connect the hoses. Keep pumping the vacuum pump & it should stabilize between 6 & 16 mm Hg of vacuum. Then pump pressure, it should stabilize at 8 mm Hg or more of pressure.

Then there's a test of the ORVR Vent Shut valve, which is located on top of the gas tank. You check vacuum & pressure at a couple hoses alongside the fuel filler pipe. If the valve is bad you drop the gas tank to replace it...


http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=748876
&
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9675&d=1193865099

[PJungnitsch]

As mentioned, it's probably not a big deal, especially on an older vehicle. All cars used to just have vented gas caps, motorcycles and small engines still do, as do all the many other fuel storage tanks and containers.

As long as the engine isn't pulling unfiltered air (ie dirt into the engine) in a vacuum line from the system.

[slybry]

As mentioned, it's probably not a big deal, especially on an older vehicle. All cars used to just have vented gas caps, motorcycles and small engines still do, as do all the many other fuel storage tanks and containers.

As long as the engine isn't pulling unfiltered air (ie dirt into the engine) in a vacuum line from the system.

Your right I can probably run like this for a long while but 1) the light on drives me nuts and 2) if I want to sell it it will be a problem.

[slybry]

Thanks MKII for the  info. I have printed it and will bring it with me to the shop next week.

I am still open to more input.

[rrocket]

Get a piece of black electrical tape, and put it over the check engine light.  Problem solved!!!  (ok..just kidding..)

[bmwr]

It is true that evap system failure usually does not cause engine to run bad,However if your check engine light is on you will never know if there is another problem with your vehicle that sets the light and that can cause problems..Evap systems can be hard to fix.Code 1457 is a leak code if all the valves have been changed could be canister or hoses that connect system or even a fuel tank leak(most likley small leak).when the gas cap was changed was it a factory cap?> is there any rust build up on the sealing surface of the filling tube?. Have your tech recheck leak,and wireing to valves.When checking wiring a test light most times does not put enough load on electrical circuts.You can have a test light light up when testing circuits but when connected to component will not supply proper amperage to operate component properly,See if your tech is only using test light,and make sure he checks power and ground with this method .Hope this helps.

[slybry]

Just FYI... Bringing car back to mechanic on Monday armed with all the info you all have provided. Thanks again.

My mechanic has given me years of great service and I trust him completely. This is the 1st time where things have gone a little badly with the service I have gotten. I know he is trying his best but it has been a tough problem to resolve.

I will advise you of outcome and total costs of this experiance,

[articsteve]

On a 8 year old Accord you just gotta let these problems slide after one initial attempt at a fix.

[barrie1]

If you are keeping this car then it is worthwhile for it to be fixed and properly as well. With that light on I agree it will be hard to sell for a decent amount of money as most buyers will walk away when they see that for sure. Sounds like a visit to a dealership who may be more experienced with this design of engine may be in order but I would also state what has been done already when you get there as you don't need to be paying for the same part twice. 

[slybry]

My Accord has only 76,000 kms on it. It is fully equipped with leather and sunroof. It has been oil sprayed every 2nd year, run with synthetic oil and waxed twice a year. The car is mint (except for this problem) and not a car to give up on.

Below is a picture last year when we did not have 12 feet of snow on the ground.

Dealers turn me off as they hosed me every time I go. I giving it one more shot with my mechanic today but may resort to dealer if problem is not fixed. Suspect today after a bit more testing I will end up having a new canister installed. That with be the 4th component changed.

[slybry]

Here is an update to my problem.

I have provided all your info to my mechanic.

Turns out my mechanic has tech friend at Honda dealership dealing with same incurable problem on one of their customer's Accords. Their customer is going ballistic.

Honda told my mechanic that a valve may stick in cold damp weather. I left my car overnight on Sunday so he could do cold test first thing (at around -2). The valve did not stick.

He is keeping it for another day to re-do all testing. Pressure test, fogging etc etc. All these tests have shown nothing wrong in past. He is hesitant to change canister ($160) because I think he worried it will not fix the problem. But on other hand that is the only component not changed.

He is wondering if this code is because of malfunctioning computer. He has his doubts because he said he has rarely seen them fail on Honda's. I think the computer is a $500 part.

He has also referred to looking into something located at top of gas tank. I do not know what it is but suspect it may require dropping the tank. I may be wrong about that. Another nightmare.

If I end up changing computer I will at about $1000 in parts alone trying to fix this thing.

On top of all this while my car was part outside a moving cart got away from the workers at an adjoining business and hit my car smashing taillight and cause some slight damage to bodywork. They owned up to what they did. Taillight is being replaced at their expense today. I have not seen damage to body but they are willing to compensate me for it.

Ahhh.... it just keeps getting better.

[slybry]

    Ok now I am officially freaking out.

   Car still in shop since Monday. They have re-done all testing from a-z and everything comes up as OK.

    They talked to Honda Tech support person (who actually does training) and he said that sometimes it has been known that a stuck valve can blow the computer. I think the computer is called the PCM???

    Seems they is no way to know if it is the computer (no tests exist). That seems funny to me. You would also think that a fried computer would give a different error code. It seems the only way to tell is to put in a new one and see if it fixes the problem.

     My mechanic is trying to see if he can borrow a computer from a 2nd hand parts dealer to try it.

      Any suggestions would be appreciated. I very depressed about all this.

[mrthompson]

Just drive 'er.

[slybry]

Just drive 'er.

Yah I could drive'er.... but I also might want to sell'er and that will be a problem with this light on.

Anyways here is the latest. Writing is therapy for me during this experiance.

The bad news is: the daeler told me that a new PCM (computer) is about $1000. Yikes!!!!

The good news is: that the service tech at dealer (who knows my mechanic) says he does not think it is the computer because the testing to make sure valves are clicking is being sent thru the computer and it is the computer sending out the comands to open and close valves. This should mean computer is ok.

The bad news is: The tech thinks next thing to look at is some pressure contol valve at top of gas tank. Dropping tank on this car requires dropping sub frame and suspension components. Lots of labour.

The good news is: My mechanic said before they drop tank he has decided to take car to Honda in a couple weeks and have his buddy there use his testing equipment to check it out.

The bad news is: That this Honda dealership is dealing with an Accord with same uncurable problem right now. Customer was due to come back for more testing but has never showed up. He is also fed up and mad.

That is it for now. I will find out my next disappointment in about 3 weeks.

[mrthompson]

Sell it 'as is' when the time comes.  If it runs fine, why dump a bunch of $$ into it?    

[Cord]

  It's already 8 years old. When do you think you might sell it? When it's 10 or 11 years old? I don't see a big difference in resale on a car that old that runs fine and has a check engine light on. Certainly not enough to justify more than a couple hundred bucks in repairs now.

[tpl]

If Slybry is in Ontario and in the Drive clean area I don't think that you can get an emissions test certificate if you have a CEL on.  Which you need for the buyer to be able to register the car.

[slybry]

I know what you are saying about re-sale value and the fact that this car is quite old.

Right now here is Quebec my Accord would have a value of about $9000 (fully equipped, excellent condtion and low Kms) if it were not for the light. What impact the light would have I do not know. I would think as much as 2 grand off price.

I may sell one of my cars this summer. My Acura is 3 years older (also is great shape) and I was going to sell that one but this problem with Accord has maybe caused me to want to sell it instead.

If I keep Accord and run with light on.... there is also a chance a new problem could occur and I would not know it as light is already on.

The other thing here is that my mechanic is now on a mission to fix this thing. He is pissed off about it and considers this a challenge. I have dealt with him for years and he told me I will not be paying for the labour he spends on this car trying to get to root of problem. He does not want to give up. I told him that in the end we will work out a deal that is fair for both of us. I want to be fair.