Author Topic: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption  (Read 4281 times)

Offline johngenx

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2008, 08:39:00 pm »
Honestly, I just love that companies are competing to make more efficient vehicles.  Bring on the hybrids, diesels, whatever.  Just give me lots of options that can get less than 5L/100km.

With a Pruis at $21,100 in the US, that is a seriously cost effective family hauler.  The BMW 520d might be a bit better at the pump, but the price is another league...
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Offline mmret

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2008, 09:18:05 pm »
With a Pruis at $21,100 in the US, that is a seriously cost effective family hauler.  The BMW 520d might be a bit better at the pump, but the price is another league...

True, but as a demonstration of what diesel can do, this is quite impressive. Could you imagine a Civic with a similar engine? Given that a Civic is considerably lighter than a 5 series, a real world 60MPG is within reach in a pretty substantial car.
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Offline G35X

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2008, 10:28:17 pm »
Sorry, Serniter, I think I went too far.  I also should have mentioned that emissions from the latest diesel engines are as clean as those from gas counterpart thanks to the common-rail injection (invented by Denso, a Toyota company), urea and DPF.

I mentioned this elsewhere but would like to point out again that the gas engine’s benefit of start/stop and wider throttle opening will not be so obvious with the diesel/electric hybrid, if ever made. So, Serniter, you are right… go with a smaller, cleaner diesel.  That’s one solution (albeit not much fun) for cleaner environment. 

The air won’t get any cleaner unless old diesel cars and trucks retire. The government should force this as the City of Tokyo did. The strong trucker lobby won’t make this happen in NA, though. 

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2008, 10:32:57 pm »
The air won’t get any cleaner unless old diesel cars and trucks retire. The government should force this as the City of Tokyo did. The strong trucker lobby won’t make this happen in NA, though. 

You mean those people who ensure we have food and the material necessities of life?  Force trucking companies to replace their entire fleets and be prepared to pay $20 for an apple.  This sort of thing has to happen very gradually if you don't want a massive spike in food and consumer good prices.
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Offline G35X

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2008, 01:34:41 am »
Mitlov,
People in Tokyo are already used to $10 apples, $5 oranges and $200 cantalopes (per piece prices!), although this crazy pricing is not directly related to the diesel emission clean-up.  The federal, state or provincial government can introduce a retrofit program for older cars, buses and trucks as an interim measure. In the case with Tokyo you can have a DPF (+NOX) filter installed at a cost of 3,000 dollars to 25,000 dollars depending on the size of engine. Without the certified retrofit you cannot drive into the greater Tokyo area. All the new cars, buses and trucks must meet more stringent standard.
 

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2008, 01:58:59 am »
Mitlov,
People in Tokyo are already used to $10 apples, $5 oranges and $200 cantalopes (per piece prices!), although this crazy pricing is not directly related to the diesel emission clean-up.

Not directly related?  It's not at all related--prices have been like that in Tokyo for a LOT longer than this "clean diesel" phenomenon.

I'm sorry, I just can't take it that seriously when I'm being told to pay $10 an apple and $200 a cantalope because we must IMMEDIATELY change the entire trucking fleet to save the environment...and I'm being told this by someone driving around in a 300 horsepower AWD car.

Offline G35X

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2008, 06:19:58 pm »
Mitlov,
People there have been living on $10 a piece apple, $200 sushi or French dinner, and the current $6 per gallon gas… telling people of NA that cheap gas and cheap hamburger (albeit contaminated) are not god-given right.

Now, let’s get back to the question of diesel emission.
1)   No matter how clean the current gas engine vehicles are, the air we breathe does not get much cleaner as long as diesel cars, buses, trucks and farm equipment keep belching out soot, HC, sulfuric compounds and NOX.
2)   Already DPF and NOX filters are available for retrofitting purpose.
3)   Although reduction of CO2 emission is important (my 300HP car is a source, so are all the fossil fuel burners), soot, NOX and sulfuric compounds are directly harmful to us to-day.
4)   In Europe diesel cars are popular NOT because they are cleaner.  It is because of the preference of economy-mined consumers and with the exception of the small number of the latest models they are much dirtier than the gas counterpart.
5)   To-day’s gas engine is very clean thanks to the closed-loop fuel management system (which maintains stoichiometric combustion throughout a wide range of load conditions) and the 3-way cat converter.
6)   Cleaning-up effort of diesel engine is still in progress and so far solutions are expensive.
7)   European automakers are trying to shift consumer’s attention to CO2 (Diesel engines are better in this department because of their higher thermal efficiency) away from more immediate problem of soot and NOX.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 01:49:31 pm by G35X »

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2008, 10:22:09 am »
Mitlov,
People there have been living on $10 a piece apple, $200 sushi or French dinner, and the current $6 per gallon gas… telling people of NA that cheap gas and cheap hamburger (albeit contaminated) are not god-given right.

But 300hp sport sedans are?  Face it, G35X, by telling me I should be moving to a teeny apartment just so that I can afford to buy fruits and vegetables for my kid, "to save the environment," while you drive around in a tire-shredding high-performance car, you come off as saying "do as I say, not as I do."  And that's the nicest way I can put it.

Offline safristi

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2008, 10:37:23 am »
thank god I hate apples,sushi and Canteloupes....................the G35X i like......... 8)
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Offline G35X

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2008, 02:13:03 pm »
Mitlov,

That tiny apartment there costs at least half a million dollars to buy or 2500 dollars a month to rent. It uses less energy to cool or heat, though.

Thank you for pointing out the hypocritical nature of my comment.  I realize that. But, I was talking about the difference between diesel and gas. Between the two devils I would rather breathe CO2 than soot, NOX and sulfur.  Anyway, I am eagerly waiting for the hybrid version of the Lexus IS.

Offline safristi

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2008, 05:53:03 pm »
soot Nox & Sulphur are U living in the Mittle AGES..............see elsewhere on this site
 and on the NET about Hondas newest Diesel about to HIT Norff Americus   hack hic  hoc..hork!!! :D...and the Urea crowd from EuroDisney 8).........tawk about behind the New Tawk TIMES...ban all diesels crowd............ :think: :nono: :bang: :banghead:

Offline davidm

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2008, 06:02:23 pm »
Mitlov,

That tiny apartment there costs at least half a million dollars to buy or 2500 dollars a month to rent. It uses less energy to cool or heat, though.

Thank you for pointing out the hypocritical nature of my comment.  I realize that. But, I was talking about the difference between diesel and gas. Between the two devils I would rather breathe CO2 than soot, NOX and sulfur.  Anyway, I am eagerly waiting for the hybrid version of the Lexus IS.


Particulates and NOX and Sulphur are all being regulated away in contemporary diesel.  All that urea-injection / catalytic converters is about trapping NOX.  Those only work on low-sulphur diesel.  Particulates traps/filters are now starting to be installed and mandated over the next 4ish years.  Trucks are going to be regulated differently than cars on this, but diesel is seriously cleaning up its act.

That said, until recently, diesel was simply the cheaper uglier cousin.

Here is a Vancouver company in the diesel emissions space (although a little late to the party) http://www.nxtgen.com/.  Of course, there is also www.westport.com, but that's a slightly different twist.
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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2008, 08:20:09 am »
Mitlov,
People in Tokyo are already used to $10 apples, $5 oranges and $200 cantalopes (per piece prices!), although this crazy pricing is not directly related to the diesel emission clean-up.  The federal, state or provincial government can introduce a retrofit program for older cars, buses and trucks as an interim measure. In the case with Tokyo you can have a DPF (+NOX) filter installed at a cost of 3,000 dollars to 25,000 dollars depending on the size of engine. Without the certified retrofit you cannot drive into the greater Tokyo area. All the new cars, buses and trucks must meet more stringent standard.
 

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2008, 08:25:51 am »
Although CO2 emission of diesel engine is less per km because of its higher thermal efficiency, its NOX, HC and soot emissions are much more than the gas counterpart because of the very nature of diesel combustion, which swings widely from very lean (NOX) to very rich (HC and soot).  It is very difficult, if not impossible, to clean the diesel exhaust to meet the new U.S. emission standard. In comparison, to-day’s gas engine maintains stoichiometric combustion throughout its load range and its exhaust is much easier to clean.


Modern diesel engines are MUCH cleaner than they used to be, this will take a while to filter down to the majority of trucks on the roads though, even decades. But diesel has somewhat of an unfair reputation in the US.

My little Peugeot 106 has a relatively dirty poluting little engine, but I can get over 60mpg if I try.  Then again, I am helping keep the temperature down due to Global Dimming !

 :rofl2:

Offline tpl

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2008, 08:30:46 am »
Well Bob I always thought that Global Dimming was a function of watching too many reality TV shows.  :rofl:

Or living in the rays emitted by too many CCTV surveillance cameras. :rofl2:

We have a new nadir of reality shows here fyi.   "Americas most smartest model"   and yes, that is the title.
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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2008, 08:50:12 am »
Well Bob I always thought that Global Dimming was a function of watching too many reality TV shows.  :rofl:

Or living in the rays emitted by too many CCTV surveillance cameras. :rofl2:

We have a new nadir of reality shows here fyi.   "Americas most smartest model"   and yes, that is the title.

 :rofl2: :rofl: :rofl2: :rofl: :rofl2:

Offline Mitlov

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2008, 10:38:17 am »
We have a new nadir of reality shows here fyi.   "Americas most smartest model"   and yes, that is the title.

The title is a reflection of the models on the show, not the audience.  Have you ever watched the show?  It's funny, because you're sitting there going "they can't really be THAT f---in ignorant, can they?"

Offline tpl

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2008, 10:53:31 am »
I did watch an episode Mitlov. All the way through.... like a mouse hypnotized by a snake. the participants should probably be euthanized before they breed and the producers just tortured to death

Offline safristi

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Re: BMW 520D vs a Prius fuel consumption
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2008, 11:34:20 am »
 ???...... ::)......WOT about the Viewers that keep the "THING" going.......... :stick: ooops sorry it's the slowing down to see an accident gene @ work....... :rofl2: