CD Article: 2008 BMW M3 Sedan and Coupe

[wing]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

[G35X]

Daimler AG plans from next year to equip a version of its S- Class sedan with a lithium-ion battery, a means of storing power commonly used in laptop computers and portable music players, Bloomberg News reported today. The battery, which will last about 10 years, won't be sufficient to run the vehicle on its own, Brock said. The Stuttgart-based company has yet to set a price for the technology. Carmakers are speeding development of electric vehicles to help comply with European legislation that will limit carbon dioxide emissions. The main drawback of batteries is their limited range and the time it takes to charge them, Daimler's research chief Thomas Weber has said.  The technology was developed by Daimler researchers who have been working on lithium-ion batteries for use in automobiles since 1992, the company said in an e-mailed statement. – Detroit News Service, Feb 29. 2008

I am straying away a little bit from the subject of the M3… but, I hope BMW leads the industry with new technologies rather than bringing out more of the old technology. I think German automakers are very scared now. They spent (and are spending) a lot of money in R&D to clean up inherently dirty diesel engines just to please economy-minded EU consumers. They now realize the Prius type hybrids are very viable means to reduce fuel consumption and air pollution. When the first generation of Prius was introduced 10 years ago, they sneezed at it as being too complicated and expensive.  Now they have to do catch-up work.  The key to electric propulsion of automobiles is the battery. If you have the battery, the rest is easy. They should have spent the diesel R&D money on battery development instead.

[huota]

...I think German automakers are very scared now. They spent (and are spending) a lot of money in R&D to clean up inherently dirty diesel engines just to please economy-minded EU consumers...

Oh yeah, those poor economy-minded EU consumers. Luckily things are so much better in the NA where the cost of fuel is no issue. And the Japanese have invested so much in the hybrid technology just for the sake of technological advancement, since fuel conservation is irrelevant, no?

[airbalancer]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

Does anyone actual buy one new or would they leased?

[Jameel]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

Does anyone actual buy one new or would they leased?

Which car?

[airbalancer]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

Does anyone actual buy one new or would they leased?

Which car?

R8, but probably M3 also

[HeliDriver]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

Does anyone actual buy one new or would they leased?

Which car?

R8, but probably M3 also

It depends.

If your life savings isn't quite enough to purchase the car, and your disability check is only $2,500 per month, then the only smart financial decision is to lease. That's what I've heard, anyway. 

[The Mighty Duck]

 

I am straying away a little bit from the subject of the M3… but, I hope BMW leads the industry with new technologies rather than bringing out more of the old technology. I think German automakers are very scared now. They spent (and are spending) a lot of money in R&D to clean up inherently dirty diesel engines just to please economy-minded EU consumers. They now realize the Prius type hybrids are very viable means to reduce fuel consumption and air pollution. When the first generation of Prius was introduced 10 years ago, they sneezed at it as being too complicated and expensive.  Now they have to do catch-up work.  The key to electric propulsion of automobiles is the battery. If you have the battery, the rest is easy. They should have spent the diesel R&D money on battery development instead.

Diesel is a better alternative than hybrids.  Much stink has been raised about the environmental damage resulting from disposing of hybrid batteries - a non-issue for diesels.  And their mileage advantage is non-existent on the highway.  Diesel is a much more viable short term solution.  Honda recently annoucned there would not be a new Accord hybrid - they're dropping it in favour of a diesel.

I wouldn't say the Germans have been wasting their time until their diesels actually make it over here, and consumers realize (the same way they did with hybrids) that diesel is good.

[tpl]

I agree.   Until we have more diesels to choose from how could we tell if Hybrids are the way forward.   IMO diesels win until the laws of chemistry are repealed and batteries get an order of magnitude ( or two) increase in capacity/unit of weight.    ( I expect a nuclear battery could be made but I have this suspicion that a fair number of the public and most of the politicians  would be against it)

[mmret]

and consumers realize (the same way they did with hybrids) that diesel is good.

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Its nice that the euro brands are pumping some marketing pizazz into the issue with sexy names like BlueMotion, BlueTec, etc.

I wonder if any of them will have the balls to use the word "Green" for a diesel engine. Blue is only half way.

[Mitlov]

If diesels are such a dead-end and hybrids are so wonderful and European manufacturers are stupid to pursue diesels, why has Honda abandoned the Accord Hybrid and unveiled the i-DTEC engine?

[Giant Dwarf]

You. Are. All. Nutz.

More Power?  Check.
Less Weight? Check.
Less Consumption? Check
4 Doors? Check.

This is the perfect vehicle IMO.

Crappy, rubbery stick shift. CHECK! 

Nothing worse than having a rubbery shifter, and by every account I've read, this car has it. 

No, wait... I can think of something worse:  a company that doesn't offer a proper, manual transmission at all for their so-called performance cars.   

I'll reserve final judgement on that "rubbery" shifter until I experience it for myself.  I wonder if it's rubbery by BMW standards or general standards.  BMW does tend to build among the best manny trannies around usually, which makes me a little skeptical about believing it's really all that bad.

[airbalancer]

Does not ZF make the trannies for BMW

[The Mighty Duck]

I'll reserve final judgement on that "rubbery" shifter until I experience it for myself.  I wonder if it's rubbery by BMW standards or general standards.  BMW does tend to build among the best manny trannies around usually, which makes me a little skeptical about believing it's really all that bad.

Only BMW manual tranny I've heard bad things about is the stick in the M5...  I doubt I'll ever know if the M3's stick is "rubbery", though.  Wee it out of my price bracket... 

[tpl]

I'll reserve final judgement on that "rubbery" shifter until I experience it for myself.  I wonder if it's rubbery by BMW standards or general standards.  BMW does tend to build among the best manny trannies around usually, which makes me a little skeptical about believing it's really all that bad.

Only BMW manual tranny I've heard bad things about is the stick in the M5...  I doubt I'll ever know if the M3's stick is "rubbery", though.  Wee it out of my price bracket... 

the current M5 was designed NOT to have a manual transmission, just the 7 spd SMG but some Americans ( of all people) argued BMW into bodging up a manual transmission that could stand the output from the M5 engine.

the M3 may end up with just a 6 spd DSG type transmission next year.

[Giant Dwarf]

I'll reserve final judgement on that "rubbery" shifter until I experience it for myself.  I wonder if it's rubbery by BMW standards or general standards.  BMW does tend to build among the best manny trannies around usually, which makes me a little skeptical about believing it's really all that bad.

Only BMW manual tranny I've heard bad things about is the stick in the M5...  I doubt I'll ever know if the M3's stick is "rubbery", though.  Wee it out of my price bracket... 

I'm assuming the stickshift in the M5 is the same as in the M6 -- if so, I can tell you it is not rubbery in my opinion.  Firm, mechanical and precise like every other BMW I've experienced.

[Mitlov]

The criticisms I've heard about the M5 manual are not about the shift action, but the fact that you can't defeat the traction control, unlike the M5 SMG.  This is done to prevent the drivetrain from self-destructing, if I recall correctly.

[tpl]

The criticisms I've heard about the M5 manual are not about the shift action, but the fact that you can't defeat the traction control, unlike the M5 SMG.  This is done to prevent the drivetrain from self-destructing, if I recall correctly.

Obviously the "launch control" mode can't work with a manny tranny is this what you mean by defeating the traction control?

[Jameel]

M3 or GT-R?  I know where my $80k would go!  Granted at $69K it's not too bad...  If I had $80k though I'd save for another year and get an R8

Does anyone actual buy one new or would they leased?

Which car?

R8, but probably M3 also

It depends.

If your life savings isn't quite enough to purchase the car, and your disability check is only $2,500 per month, then the only smart financial decision is to lease. That's what I've heard, anyway. 

SiRCivic
Hahahahahahahah.... nice one!
 
airbalancer
Yah why not lease the M3.  Doesn't BMW have those great lease rates.
About the R8, I don't know?  Do exotics (Ferrari, Lambo, etc...) usually get leased?

[Mitlov]

Obviously the "launch control" mode can't work with a manny tranny is this what you mean by defeating the traction control?

I tracked down the review I was thinking of.  I guess I meant stability control, not traction control:

This M5's shift-for-yourself six-speed is consistent with others we've experienced from BMW. In fact, it's the same six-speed employed in the previous-generation M5. And therein lies the rub. The new M5's V-10 was designed to be allied with the seven-speed SMG. Bolting the same engine to the six-speed entailed a proviso. With the SMG, the driver had the option of disabling the dynamic stability-control (DSC) system. When you opt for the manual, you don't get that option. A little dashboard button labeled MDM — for "M Dynamic Mode" — raises the DSC intervention threshold, but unlike the SMG version, it can't be completely shut down and is always on guard. When wheelspin is detected, DSC goes to work, damping the throttle, sometimes squeezing the big cross-drilled brake rotors.

Would you be surprised to hear that this doesn't have a positive effect on acceleration? Or lap times on the Streets of Willow? Or making a hot exit from a slow corner? Of course you wouldn't. Because that's precisely what happens.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/bullet_sedans_reloaded_comparison_test+page-2.html