CD Article: 2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid

[rrocket]

the OLDE TAXI gag thing is just that OLD.......any car even those old POS Checkers Ran fer ever...if ya never shut it orff .........cold start it 1 Million Times....freeze it to death or Overheat it inna desert climate....half a MILL in NEW JERK is a breeze even fer a HYUNDAI PONY...so stop wif the BS.........

Why is this hard for you to understand?  Much of the taxi use for the Prius in Vancouver has it using the battery power much of the time....and the taxi driver's themselves say they try to keep it that way since they will make more money in a shift (less gas=more money in their pocket).  The question was asked if these are reliable.  If much of those 400,000kms are indeed on the battery-mode, I'd say yes, they are reliable.  Has nothing to do with "on off".  And I'll even go a step further.  I say a Prius starts/shuts off more than a regular taxi in a shift...possibly dozens and dozens of times a day.  You will recall the Prius automatically shuts the engine off at stops, or when you are cruising on battery power alone.  The engine re-starts after a stop or when needed for extra acceleration.

So Prius are reliable despite the fact that they shut on/off MANY more times per shift than a regular taxi.   

[H-IMA]

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[Snowman]

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So Prius are reliable despite the fact that they shut on/off MANY more times per shift than a regular taxi.   

Indeed.  They are not just reliable.  They are THE MOST reliable vehicles on the road today. Period !!

In fact, the most popular hybrids have thus far been more reliable than their gas-only counterparts.  In addition to having a solid and proven 10 year track record, hybrids come with very long warranties (8+ years).  If anyone was to ever consider a hybrid, they could not make a much better choice especialy if they chose to keep it for 8+ years.

Then, it is matter of the nature of current hybrid design that allows MUCH lower mechanical wear (brakes, gas engine, etc) and off-loads a good amount of power train stress to the electrical systems which are consistently more reliable.   Talk about a lower TCO, no other gas-only can match.  Ever wonder why so many hybrids never go through a change of brake pads? 

A win-win situation and a vision of the future ahead.

I would like to see the information you used in stating that hybrid vehicles are the most reliable on the road today.

[johngenx]

CR rates the various hybrid models at the top of their list.

[H-IMA]

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[Snowman]

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I would like to see the information you used in stating that hybrid vehicles are the most reliable on the road today.

Sure.  Consumer Reports has been providing these same ratings over the years.  While it is difficult to provide a direct link to their reports, you may just access the hundreds of other sites that report on this well known yearly reliability summary.  Like this one for example:

http://www.soultek.com/clean_energy/hybrid_cars/consumer_reports_and_hybrid_cars_what_you_need_to_know.htm

You'll also find many similar assessments performed by federal, state and provincial fleets that basically hit on the very same conclusion.  Manitoba and BC governments have published these reports which also include fuel consumption figures.  Taxi and courier fleets have also published numerous reports attesting to the same conclusion.  Again, a quick search will net you much to read 

I guess, some would say the debate is over.

Take care.

Taking an existing vehicle with an excellent reliability rating and adding a hybrid version is not an indicator that the vehicle is far superior to anything else on thee road today. That argument does not work and the debate is far from over IMO 

[H-IMA]

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[inco]

For the most part I have to agree that Toyota has done a great job in building and perfecting the hybrid powertrain. But until they have to start replacing batteries down the road, the love in might turn a little thorny.

When that happens how are the green people going to feel about shelling out their big green bucks to stay green and how great they will sleep knowing all of those batteries are going to which landfill site near you? I know they can be recycled, but there will be some not so laudible garages and mechanics and people who will try and save a buck or two and dump them.

On the other hand maybe only Toyota dealers can replace the batteries and so that won't happen. It is plug and play isn't it? Labour costs can't be that bad though can they?

[Leviathan]

When that happens how are the green people going to feel about shelling out their big green bucks to stay green and how great they will sleep knowing all of those batteries are going to which landfill site near you? I know they can be recycled, but there will be some not so laudible garages and mechanics and people who will try and save a buck or two and dump them.

Toyota has a bounty on their batteries.

Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

[Snowman]

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Taking an existing vehicle with an excellent reliability rating and adding a hybrid version is not an indicator that the vehicle is far superior to anything else on thee road today. That argument does not work and the debate is far from over IMO 

I guess it could be perceived that way by some of us. 
But, by following and reading these reports, not many people will fail to see the Prius consistently at the top of the reliability rankings whether hybrid or not.  Then, it will also be hard to not see that most hybrids rate better than their gas-only counterparts. 

But like I said, "for some" the debate is already over.  For others it will never be. For the rest, it will all be history, someday.

Take care.

I like to deal in reality not perception so where are theses reports you speak of?

[rrocket]

^^^^Very easy to find.  If you want the taxi specific reports, just google "taxi Prius".  If you want JD Power stuff, you know where to go.  I went to a Prius specific site once and asked if there had been a battery pack replacement yet and there was a resounding "no".  Not sure if that's data you can take to the bank, but I wasn't offered the same reply when I asked at an Insight specific site.  There had been several cases of a new battery being required by the Insight.

The City of TO also did a study on the Prius.  While they noted the Prius cost about 26% more for SCHEDULED preventative maintenance than their non-hybrid Cavaliers (mainly because they took the Prius to a Toyota dealer rather than have their fleet mechanics do the work), the Prius was 93% better in NON-SCHEDULED costs.  That number is absolutely amazing, but mirrors what the cabbies say.   

And here's a statement from Toyota, so you can take it with a grain of salt if you like...but it mirrors what those at the Prius site had said about battery replacement:

"The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.”

[Snowman]

^^^^Very easy to find.  If you want the taxi specific reports, just google "taxi Prius".  If you want JD Power stuff, you know where to go.  I went to a Prius specific site once and asked if there had been a battery pack replacement yet and there was a resounding "no".  Not sure if that's data you can take to the bank, but I wasn't offered the same reply when I asked at an Insight specific site.  There had been several cases of a new battery being required by the Insight.

The City of TO also did a study on the Prius.  While they noted the Prius cost about 26% more for SCHEDULED preventative maintenance than their non-hybrid Cavaliers (mainly because they took the Prius to a Toyota dealer rather than have their fleet mechanics do the work), the Prius was 93% better in NON-SCHEDULED costs.  That number is absolutely amazing, but mirrors what the cabbies say.   

  Dewd, are you comparing a Prius to a Cavalier for the maintenance costs?

[rrocket]

Not me..the City of Toronto.  They were doing a study on switching to "green" cars for their fleet. I realize Cavaliers are not the standard of reliability...but that 93% number is just staggering in almost any context.

As a comparison, there numbers for the Honda Insight were 71% more for scheduled, and 34% less for non-scheduled.  So comparing the Honda, the Prius almost 60% better.....

[Seafoam]

Someone said earlier even non hybrids suffer from lower gas mileage in the winter. This would  be worse in the hybrid because if the gas engine is not fully warmed up the electric motor will not function at  all at lower speeds.It would be acting like a normal 4 cylinder camry. I think these mileage tests are done on fully warmed up engines aren't they?It is crazy to complain about fuel mileage in the winter on all cars.In ideal warmer conditions this car would get better mileage all round.

[H-IMA]

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[Simple]

You are asking alot for someone who can't even use this site's simple search engine.

[Snowman]

You are asking alot for someone who can't even use this site's simple search engine.

Show me one of my 18000 posts that was a duplicated topic. I use the search feature but it is not up to par with others that I have used. I guess you should have used the search function to read my post before posting.

[Snowman]

I like to deal in reality not perception so where are theses reports you speak of?

Snowman, I don't know what else to say... 

I said Consumer Reports produces and publishes these reports.  To access these reports please pay for the subscription like the rest of us do.  Here's the link if you are up to it:

https://ec.consumerreports.org/ec/cro/order.htm?pkey=croMSN30DaysFreePromo&AFFID=AMSC955

Alternatively, please do the rest of the work yourself.  I've already given you clues to make your work easier and even demonstrated how you can get a "summary" of the CR reports by visiting any of the hundreds of sites available to you.  I gave you one example already.  Sure it is not ideal, but it is better than living in darkness and definitely the first step to enlightenment without having to pay for a CR subscription.

There is so much data and reports on hybrid vehicles that the only hindrance to learning from these reports is lack of willingness to look them up in the first place.  Please, do a look up on fleet reports and analysis from the province of BC and Manitoba, to list a couple.

Hey, what the heck, start here :  vvvv
http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Toyota_Prius_Fuel_Performance.htm

... Then, request the detailed reports from the provinces, free of charge.


Take care.

As I mented before comparing a Cavalier to a Prius is pointless because both cars are at the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of engine efficiency and quality from a manufactures perspective. The only way this test would hold any water is if they compared a Prius to a Corolla or Yaris.

[H-IMA]

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[Snowman]

As I mented before comparing a Cavalier to a Prius is pointless because both cars are at the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of engine efficiency and quality from a manufactures perspective. The only way this test would hold any water is if they compared a Prius to a Corolla or Yaris.

The comparison you are so stuck on, pertains to the first generation Prius.  It was a compact car back then, so it was meaningful to compare it to a fleet favorite - the Chevy Cavalier - again, this was a comparison performed by SEVERAL provincial governments and mirrors the studies of many other fleet operators around north America.  Please read the reports and learn the backgrounds and underlying reasons for the analysis performed.

Comparing a current gen Prius to a corolla is inappropriate because the new Prius is a mid-size vehicle.  The Corolla is a compact and the Yaris is even smaller (sub-compact).  A more appropriate comparison would be made with a Toyota matrix or even the Camry.  But still, the Prius easily excels over the later two in many areas as it still remains as the most reliable vehicle in Toyota's lineup.

On a side note: The HCH is the most reliable vehicle in Honda's lineup as well even when compared to its gas-only counterpart as well.


Take care.

I going though my Consumers Retorts ratings and I see some black circles for electrical systems on the Prius compared to a Camry which has all red so I challenge your statement that the Prius is Toyota’s most reliable car.

The Prius was orinally classified as a compact car by JD Powers, Consumers Reports, and others but has only recently been changed to a mid size despite being smaller.
 
Then a fair comparison would be to compare a 4-cyl Camry to the Prius for a realistic economic evaluation. I perform economic evaluations for a living in the private sector and if I used the logic found in the public/government studies I would not be working tomorrow.

Have a nice day