Topic: squeaky brakes - one month after replacement

[outlander]

Just had the discs and pads replaced on my 2005 outlander.
I know it's normal to have some squeaking when the brakes are new, but i've put about 3000km on the car since then - and I still feel rubbing, and loud squeaks (especially in the morning, or if I've left the car parked for a few hours).

The garage says it's normal, due to the metallic brakes they use now (vs. asbestos) - is this really normal??

[levistar]

Depends on how loud and how long it lasts. Some noise is normal in the morning. Were OE pads and rotors used? Some aftermarket ones can be pretty cheap and most do not come when a brake silent shims.

[rrocket]

It's possible they didn't put any "stop sqeak" on the back of the pads.  That's likely the squeak you hear..the pads move back and forth very rapidly and cause the squeaking.  The Stop squeak is a blue goop the put behind the pads..a lubricant of sorts to stop the squeaking...

[Squishy]

Agree.  Head over to NAPA and pick up some of the Kleen-Flo stuff in an aerosol can.  Others prefer the CRC brand.

Is the squeak during braking or just as you press or release the pedal?  If it is when the pedal moves, it could be the rear shoes rubbing against the backing plate - some stop-squeak (K-F calls it Disc Brake Quiet) will take care of that as well.

Kleen-Flo also has a product called Brake-In that is supposed to fill in the small pores and grooves on the disc and eliminate squeal.  I haven't needed to use it on new setups but I tend to spray some on when I put new pads on old rotors.

[articsteve]

The garage says it's normal, due to the metallic brakes they use now (vs. asbestos) - is this really normal?? 

I think your problem is you got the wrong type of pad.  Semi-metallic are the noisiest of any pad.  Never use them myself.

There are basically 3 types of pad material:  non asbestos organic, semi-metallic, and ceramic.

Organic:  this type of pad is made by mixing nonasbestos fibers, such as glass, rubber, carbon, and Kevlar, with filler materials and high-temperature resins. These pads are softer and create less noise, but they wear faster and create more dust.

Semi-metallic: This formula, containing about 30 to 65 percent metal, typically includes chopped steel wool or wire, iron powder, copper or graphite mixed with inorganic fillers, and friction modifiers that bond all the ingredients together. These pads are more durable and have excellent heat transfer, but also wear down rotors faster, have intrusive noise characteristics, and may not perform as well under low-temperature conditions.

Ceramic:  Problem with ceramic is that sellers can have only 5% ceramic content and claim they are ceramic so knowing Brands is critical.  They are generally quiet and cleaner than organic and semi-metallic.

[barrie1]

The brake grease can also be found in a bright Orange colour as well in a small containor of it. I still have a few bottles of it but the newer stuff is generally Blue as Rrocket states. Its a anti-rattle grease which is applied on the back of the pads to help keep the noise down. A certain amount of squeeling is normal with disc brakes because of the rotors rusting over every damp night. Usually cleans off the 1st few stops in the morning but some materials are worse for it as well because of the makeup of them.   

[outlander]

Thanks for all of your well-informed responses

Yes, the squeak only happens when braking, and only for the first few stops, especially during high humidity. After that, they sound fine. The sound doesn't bother me so much, what worried me was if there was something actually wrong with the brakes themselves...

Judging by the responses, next time I get my brakes done, I should specifically request the use of brake grease behind the pads, or alternatively, request ceramic pads.

[Squishy]

Judging by the responses, next time I get my brakes done, I should specifically request the use of brake grease behind the pads, or alternatively, request ceramic pads.

Well, they will both cause squealing under the right conditions, so choosing one over the other is no guarantee of quiet braking.  If ceramic pads are installed without shims or lube, they might still squeal.  Properly installed semi-metallics might still squeal just because of the metallic content in the pads.

Also keep in mind that many ceramic pads require more of a warm-up period than you may be used to.  I use Satisfied Pro Ceramics, which I think are also the supplier for Monroe Ceramic brakes at Canadian Tire, which required about 5-10 minutes of driving in the winter for normal braking pressure.  I switched to slotted Brembo rotors and most of the warm-up period was eliminated, but I still feel it if I need to do a panic stop.

Normally I recommend semi-metallic with steel wheels because they are economical and perform well under most conditions.  I recommend ceramic with "alloy" wheels for the low-dust characteristics of most ceramic pads.

[articsteve]

I recommend organic if your car does not have ceramics as OEM.  Wear faster, more dust, but easier on the disk.

Semi metallic; metal on metal   

[dokisc]

what ever you do dont buy monroe brakes from canadian tire there garbage they will eat the rotors noisy pads too

[Squishy]

There are probably different grades of Monroe brakes then (ceramic and non-ceramic?).  I can vouch for the ceramic type unless they have switched suppliers.  Satisfied Ceramics have been great.

[UmroAyyar]

Pardon my interference. Brakes related question. My car is going for oil change in a few weeks.

Last time around, the service advisor unconvincingly told me that brakes need service, I asked are they worn out need fixing, his response was not, just service, a bit of rust on it etc and didn't pressurize me on that account.

I know its an oft repeated question but for commoners like me it will be valueable information. 

Oh, the car is 2007 Camry with about 51,000km on it.

[Squishy]

Rust?  Rust where though?  Rust on the rotors will get worn off when you use the brakes - it's normal to see your rotors covered with rust spots after rain.  Rust on the calipers is normal as well - that's real heavy metal and isn't going to rust through before the caliper pistons seize or the car dies.  Now, if he actually went and pulled your slide pins out (the pins that the caliper itself slides sideways on) and noticed rust on the sliding surface, depending on how bad the rust is it could call for a replacement pin.  But have him demonstrate to you what the problem is while the wheels are off and the car is in the air.

[articsteve]

I know its an oft repeated question but for commoners like me it will be valueable information

Assuming that your dealer does what they are suppose to the following is done:

1. remove caliper bolts aka sliders and clean
2. remove pad clips and clean
3. remove pads and clean backing plate
4. re apply brake lube on everything and re-install with appropriate shims.

Essentially the same work as replacing the pads.  The thing is that on Camrys the pads need to float freely or they will lock, so to speak, and you will get uneven disc wear and the stopping power will be reduced and you will get poor mileage out of the disc.

Now if this vehicle has seen much of it's 51k km in the GTA driving hell hole then you might want to negotiate a brake service along with new front pads.  Rears won't need pads at this point, normally.  Yes, the front pads may have more life, but with new front pads at this point you might get to 100,000 km without visiting the brakes again and wearing out the discs.  Just a thought. 

Toyota Camry brake pads are Akebono Ceramic; top of the line. 

[barrie1]

All Rotors have rust on them which is normal to some degree. The outer edges are always rusted but its where the pad wear surfaces are that matters. They can rust overnight from moisture in the air. The next time you drive it you clean it off in the usual 3-5 stops in the morning. It all depends on how much there is and how thick of course. This can squeal quite loudly until its worn off, most makes have this issue and its somewhat normal. Part of the design of the disc brake system.