CD Article: 2008 Cadillac CTS 3.6

[Allen]

  on the CTS

from my unscientific viewings in the Toronto area, I would say its 60% G35 sedans, 40% coupes, but there sure are alot off them...

[The Mighty Duck]

Does anyone else think that Cadillac should sell a CTS coupe with the FE3 sport suspension as standard equipment?  I think it would help bring in more young buyers without requiring the R&D of an all-new model. 

In my unscientific observations, G35 coupes outnumber G35 sedans.

I know I read something about that somewhere. 

Sources close to Cadillac spilled the beans to AutoWeek about the addition of a coupe to the CTS lineup when the sedan's second generation debuts in 2008 as a 2009 model. While not officially approved, Lutz the car czar reportedly "really wants it" and since the lion's share of its components, sheetmetal and powertrains would come straight from the CTS the associated costs shouldn't be too much for the General to swallow. AutoWeek, however, expresses concern over the coupe's size, which will be larger than potential competitors including the BMW 3-Series coupe, Infiniti G35 and upcoming Audi A5. A probable V-Series edition with 400-hp, however, would give it the grunt to keep up with most luxury two-doors.

[TopGun]

I may go see if I can find a MT car and take it out.

I took out a Saab 93 2.0T MT with 17's on it about 20 minutes ago...B-O-R-I-N-G!!!

The power was fine, but I found the shifter rubbery, the non-sport seats insufficient, and the car generally devoid of any personality...very little turbo sounds, and a very muted exhaust.

I've been spoiled by the Cooper S.  Give me something with the soul, something that's truly special...are all sedans this sterile?

[Mitlov]

Autoweek shouldn't worry too much about the CTS coupe's size.  Like the sedan, it'll offer pricing like German entry-level sport sedans, handling like German entry-level sport sedans (the CTS is easily out-handled by the 3-Series, but actually outhandles the much smaller C300 Sport, according to Car and Driver's recent testing), significantly more room, a more opulent interior (except for Audi), but significantly more weight.

There IS a market for this car, particularly outside of the one-percenters who dominate internet forums and car magazines.  There are a lot of people who like cars like 3-Series coupes, but just want more space (that's why cars grow every generation, after all).

The CTS coupe might appeal to some older folks as well.  There are a lot of retirees who haven't had a kid at home for 30 years and just prefer two-door cars.

[Mitlov]

I may go see if I can find a MT car and take it out.

I took out a Saab 93 2.0T MT with 17's on it about 20 minutes ago...B-O-R-I-N-G!!!

The power was fine, but I found the shifter rubbery, the non-sport seats insufficient, and the car generally devoid of any personality...very little turbo sounds, and a very muted exhaust.

I've been spoiled by the Cooper S.  Give me something with the soul, something that's truly special...are all sedans this sterile?

The 9-3 is generally considered uncompetitive in its class, particularly with the base engine.  Rubbery shifter is a complaint I've heard before.

The CTS's manual transmission is utter crap, according to Car and Driver.  You have been warned.  But the six-speed auto is apparently superb, for the (vast majority of) drivers who want an automatic.

If you're into the Cooper S, you're more likely to enjoy more driver-oriented sport sedans like the 3-Series and the second-generation G35 than more comfort-oriented sport sedans like the Lexus IS, Cadillac CTS, MB C-Class, etc.

[The Mighty Duck]

TopGun: Mini Clubman it is!    Are you in the market for a sedan?  BMW 3-series would probably be your best bet if looking for something like the Mini...  they did build it, after all! 

Mitlov: I agree.  Given the money, I'm not sure what I would chose, but I do love the CTS.  I think a coupe version would do well.  I prefer the sedan myself...  something about all that practicality.  I must be getting old.   

[Mitlov]

Top Gun--another "sedan" to check out if you value driver involvement and handling above all else is the Mazda RX-8.  And don't be fooled by the sporty silhouette--it has four doors and seating for four adults.

And don't forget the WRX, STi, EVO, Mazdaspeed6 (and 3), etc.  You're more likely to get an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury sport sedan than in a luxury sport sedan, unless you want to drop big coin for something like a 335i or M3.

[TopGun]

TopGun: Mini Clubman it is!    Are you in the market for a sedan?  BMW 3-series would probably be your best bet if looking for something like the Mini.

Although my P5 is at 163,000k, I still quite like it for the bucks I've got in it.  I would, however, be ready to pull the trigger any time if something tugs at my heartstrings.

I've been following the Clubman reviews...they are very positive...and although there's not a tonne of extra room...I think we'd be OK - a great possibility.

3-Series...too many of 'em...and I think too expensive.  I could wait for the Alfa arrival...in 2010 

Top Gun--another "sedan" to check out if you value driver involvement and handling above all else is the Mazda RX-8.  And don't be fooled by the sporty silhouette--it has four doors and seating for four adults.

And don't forget the WRX, STi, EVO, Mazdaspeed6 (and 3), etc.  You're more likely to get an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury sport sedan than in a luxury sport sedan, unless you want to drop big coin for something like a 335i or M3.

RX-8...LOVE IT...what a great sounding engine...BUT apparently brutal in any kind of snow...and kinda brutal fuel economy when you drive as much as I do.

STI - I don't personally like the look of them.  Speed6...looking at one in the US with the black/white interior...sharp...different...yet, I find that too sterile as well.

[Mitlov]

Picky picky picky!

You didn't answer the EVO (finally coming to Canada) or Speed3 suggestions.  Also, what about a GTI five-door?

I don't get the excitement about Alfa.  They're lookers, for sure, but most European reviews suggest they're underwhelming to drive, particularly for the price.  A real case of "show not go."

[rrocket]

I don't get the excitement about Alfa.  They're lookers, for sure, but most European reviews suggest they're underwhelming to drive, particularly for the price.  A real case of "show not go."

Yea..this latest review sounds reaaal dull....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6168

Kinda spendy though...

[Mitlov]

Yea..this latest review sounds reaaal dull....

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=6168

Kinda spendy though...

That's talking about the 8C Competizione.  TopGun is talking about affordable sport sedans, so I assume he's talking about cars like the 147 and 159, not two-seat supercars.  Completely different than the 8C.

[TopGun]

Picky picky picky!

You didn't answer the EVO (finally coming to Canada) or Speed3 suggestions.  Also, what about a GTI five-door?

I don't get the excitement about Alfa.  They're lookers, for sure, but most European reviews suggest they're underwhelming to drive, particularly for the price.  A real case of "show not go."

Picky?  You got that right Mitlov!  Kinda fun always looking for something that can't be found.

Evo...maybe...I put it in the same camp as the Scooby-doo WRX...subtle like a sledge-hammer.  Mazda3...too boy racer.  GTI 5-door...yup...a possibility.

Oh, did I mention I ain't buying another car with a black interior...I'm sick of 'em.

Rrocket has it right...Brera or a 159.

[rrocket]

That's talking about the 8C Competizione.  TopGun is talking about affordable sport sedans, so I assume he's talking about cars like the 147 and 159, not two-seat supercars.  Completely different than the 8C.

Yea, yea..I know...just pushing your buttons.....

[Rexx]

The CTS has three suspension packages. The car that the author reviewed had the Performance Collection which comes with the mid-level FE2 suspension. If you order the summer tire package you get the more aggressive FE3 suspension. That probably would have satisfied the author...

[Giant Dwarf]

The CTS has three suspension packages. The car that the author reviewed had the Performance Collection which comes with the mid-level FE2 suspension. If you order the summer tire package you get the more aggressive FE3 suspension. That probably would have satisfied the author...

Yeah, that's a good point Rexx.  I wonder how many of the cars that have been deemed too soft / too floaty compared to the German competitors were using the less sporting suspension option.  Can the AWD CTS even be ordered with the FE3 suspension pkg?

[Spheric]

You're more likely to get an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury sport sedan than in a luxury sport sedan, unless you want to drop big coin for something like a 335i or M3.

Please elaborate. I think I understand where you are going, but would like to understand more about the reasons for having an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury car. Is it a combination of driver profile, less interior toys and greater availability of manual transmission?

[Mitlov]

You're more likely to get an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury sport sedan than in a luxury sport sedan, unless you want to drop big coin for something like a 335i or M3.

Please elaborate. I think I understand where you are going, but would like to understand more about the reasons for having an engaging driving experience in a non-luxury car. Is it a combination of driver profile, less interior toys and greater availability of manual transmission?

Not really.  Think of no-compromises non-luxury driver's cars, like the Cooper S, EVO IX, and Lotus Elise/Exige.  You have minimal body roll and excellent chassis feedback, but also a harsh ride.  You hear every sweet noise of the engine, but highway noise is deafening.  The car is light, but the interior feels insubstantial and the doors make a tinny noise when you close them.

Now think of no-compromises luxury cars.  The ride is smooth and composed, but doesn't transmit a lot of feedback, and rolls more in corners.  You can talk in a whisper at highway speeds, but you can't hear your own engine.  The interior feels as substantial as a bank vault, but it weighs about as much as one too.

These three categories are, to a certain degree, zero-sum games.  Increasing chassis feedback and decreasing body roll is going to increase ride harshness.  Et cetera.  Bimmer and Benz buyers, even those buying the sportiest models, still expect some degree of comfortable ride, sound deadening, and substantial interior feel.  Scoobie and Mitsubishi drivers don't.  Thus, BMW has to make certain compromises with the 335i that Mitsubishi doesn't have to make with the EVO, and the car can be further to one end of the pleasant-drive-versus-involving-drive spectrum.