Cord's Believe It or Not.

[wing]

(Imaginary face palm) "OK, well perhaps it would be best if we do this after you see the lawyer."

I literally LOL'ed with the imaginary face palm comment!

[Careener]

Pure Gold Cord!! Keep them coming

[Cord]

So, all this is leading to a question: are the salespeople beat-down for bringing credit deadbeats to the finance office?  I don't think they have access to credit info, so it seems that you'd have no way of knowing.

Abolutely not! Poor credit customers are a big source of business (when they can actually get financed, some are beyond all hope). However, some old school dealerships do not pull credit bureaus until the deal is all done and then find out it is hopeless. Most dealerships figured out years ago that this can be a huge waste of time and resources so they pull credit bureaus well before the deal finally hits the finance office. More than likely, the salesperson was just getting the explanation of why he'll never sell the guy he spent half a day with. Sales people all think they are heros for "selling" these deadbeats and then get mad when the finance office is "weak" and can't get them financed. When the truth is that a chimp could "sell" these people - they'll buy anything if they can just get approved. That's why the young guy wasn't upset - he's heard the same thing a million times before.

[Brigitte]

Customer: "My neighbour will do it, he's a good guy. I'll call him and he'll come right down."

The finance guy slides the phone over.  It's on speaker phone as the customer dials.

I get distracted and miss the first part of the conversation.  My Dad is taking the Matrix apart and I remind him we're not there for the whole day.  Then I hear the poor guy that got the call from the customer on the speakerphone:

"Are you out of your F__CKING MIND?  I'm not..."

That was my favourite part... 

[dr_spock]

Good one, Cord. 

[CyberNick]

(Imaginary face palm) "OK, well perhaps it would be best if we do this after you see the lawyer."

I literally LOL'ed with the imaginary face palm comment!

Me too.

Thanks Cord!

[initial_D]

OMG! This one takes the cheese!

 

[Wheelboy]

Cord, your stories are hilarious but also very sad.  I guess it's not hard to believe that some people are so clueless.

But let me ask some questions.  It seems like everyone who goes car shopping wants to pay less than the asking price.  That's normal I guess.  But the less they offer, or the dumber their offer,  the more you guys roll your eyes and the deeper their story becomes part of your business's folklore.

So what should they offer so that they get into your "that dude was ok" file?  How should (from your perspective) a perfect deal go down.  Tell us your side of the story.

Another question.  Does anyone ever walk in and pay MSRP or the window price on a used vehicle?

[Cord]

But let me ask some questions.  It seems like everyone who goes car shopping wants to pay less than the asking price.  That's normal I guess.  But the less they offer, or the dumber their offer,  the more you guys roll your eyes and the deeper their story becomes part of your business's folklore.

So what should they offer so that they get into your "that dude was ok" file?  How should (from your perspective) a perfect deal go down.  Tell us your side of the story.

Another question.  Does anyone ever walk in and pay MSRP or the window price on a used vehicle?

Whether or not a customer gets into the "that dude was OK" file has very little to do with the price they pay. On the average $30,000 new car there is a relatively small gap between what the highest price paid will be and what the lowest price paid will be. It's the very same things that get salespeople in a customer's "that dude was OK" file - things like showing respect and having a pleasant personality are what people are judged on. On boards like this one, when someone provides kudos to a salesperson they dealt with, they rarely mention "what an amazing price I paid." But they always mention things like being professional, trustworthy, knowledgeable, friendly, etc. The same goes for salespeople rating a customer. When a customer returns to buy another car, the commission made two years ago is long forgotten. It's how they acted that is remembered. (It's similar to why I don't mind spending a few minutes to provide this response to your question - because it was asked reasonably and politely. I would spend zero minutes responding to, "How am I supposed to know what to offer the stealership so they don't rip me off like they do everyone else."  )

To get more specific to your question, what salesperson wouldn't want a friendly, respectful customer that pays the price on the window? But to be more realistic, pretty much any offer that is made intelligently will be respected. I get the feeling from your question that you are hoping for some absolute answer like, "you must offer within $1500 of the asking price to be taken seriously." Those answers don't exist, sorry. Perhaps one way to understand why, is to think back to when you sold your own house or your car. You set an asking price. How would would you prefer the deal went down? I expect anyone would hope for someone writing a check for the full amount on the first day it was for sale, no? And if that doesn't happen, wouldn't you hope to at least deal with someone polite and reasonable?

To illustrate the complexity of the "what should the offer be" question consider the following situations: If you have your own car advertised for $20,000 and someone comes over, looks it over, drives it, and offers you $10,000 what would your reaction be? If the offer is $18,000 what would your reaction be? What if the offer was $19500?

Now imagine how you would consider each offer in the following situations:

A) You have been trying to sell your car for 6 months and have had no action on it at all. Oh ya, it's a convertible and the forecast calls for flurries tomorrow.
B) Your car has been advertised for one day, your inbox is full of messages and the only other one you can find advertised within your province has more kms and is priced at $25000.
C) Unless you get you can come up with $10,000 today you will lose the opportunity to buy the dream house you have been searching for for 15 years.

These situations can easily be equated to the situation at a dealership:

A) The car has been on the lot for months and this is the first customer to look at it. Oh ya, it's a convertible and the forecast calls for flurries.
B) The car has been on the lot for one day, and already there have been two test drives and 6 calls on it. It's 9:30 AM.
C) One more deal and the quota for a $5000 bonus will be met.

Of course an equally diverse set of situations will exist from the buyer's perspective.

Hopefully it's clear that how any offer is considered is based on a huge collection of variables from both sides of the transaction.

Do people ever pay MSRP or full asking price? Yes. See situation B above.

[Wheelboy]

An excellent, eloquent answer Cord.  Thanks.

I get the feeling from your question that you are hoping for some absolute answer

Not at all.  I just wanted your perspective on a good guy and a good deal.

My experiences (far fewer than yours of course) - Years ago I offered my local Honda dealer what I thought was a fair price for an Accord (it would have been my 3rd Accord but not from this fellow).  He was adamant he couldn't sell for that price and wouldn't even go ask his manager.  I'd done my homework and thought my price was fair.
I drove from there straight to Stratford Honda, 40k away, and said to the salesman "I have a piece of paper here with a price on it that's the price I'm willing to pay today for an Accord.  Another dealer just turned it down 30 minutes ago."  The salesman asked to see it.  I flipped the paper over, he read it, stuck out his hand and said "Shake.  You just bought a car."

We filled out the paperwork and I drove home with the coffee still warm in the cupholder of my old car.  (He had to order my new one as he didn't have the color in stock).

My next car was a 2002 Acura 3.2TL-S.  I still have it.  It's almost mint.  The salesman was a really nice fellow (I just chatted with him on the phone yesterday, eight years after buying the car from him).  The car was a new model and it was early in the model year (early August) and he had zero in stock.  We talked of a price.  He took me over to a large wall chart calendar and showed me the cars that were coming in, their colors and the dates.  "Here's the next unsold silver one" he said, pointing to a date 5-6 weeks in the future. 

He simply said "You can have that one and I'm selling them for $1000 off MSRP.  If we can't agree on that I'll offer it to the next person who comes in."  We simply shook hands and filled out the papers.

Perfect deals, both done with respect.  In both cases, two happy smiling people = perfect deal.

[toolatecrew]

An excellent, eloquent answer Cord.  Thanks.

I get the feeling from your question that you are hoping for some absolute answer

Not at all.  I just wanted your perspective on a good guy and a good deal.

My experiences (far fewer than yours of course) - Years ago I offered my local Honda dealer what I thought was a fair price for an Accord (it would have been my 3rd Accord but not from this fellow).  He was adamant he couldn't sell for that price and wouldn't even go ask his manager.  I'd done my homework and thought my price was fair.
I drove from there straight to Stratford Honda, 40k away, and said to the salesman "I have a piece of paper here with a price on it that's the price I'm willing to pay today for an Accord.  Another dealer just turned it down 30 minutes ago."  The salesman asked to see it.  I flipped the paper over, he read it, stuck out his hand and said "Shake.  You just bought a car."

We filled out the paperwork and I drove home with the coffee still warm in the cupholder of my old car.  (He had to order my new one as he didn't have the color in stock).

My next car was a 2002 Acura 3.2TL-S.  I still have it.  It's almost mint.  The salesman was a really nice fellow (I just chatted with him on the phone yesterday, eight years after buying the car from him).  The car was a new model and it was early in the model year (early August) and he had zero in stock.  We talked of a price.  He took me over to a large wall chart calendar and showed me the cars that were coming in, their colors and the dates.  "Here's the next unsold silver one" he said, pointing to a date 5-6 weeks in the future. 

He simply said "You can have that one and I'm selling them for $1000 off MSRP.  If we can't agree on that I'll offer it to the next person who comes in."  We simply shook hands and filled out the papers.

Perfect deals, both done with respect.  In both cases, two happy smiling people = perfect deal.

The story of your first attempt illustrates why people act what might be termed disresepctfully to the sales person. In probably 99% of cases that sales person who refused to take the offer to the manager has absolutley no authpority to yes or no to your offer ..none. So where does he get off refusing to take the offer to the manager? Its just pure stupidity. Even if he knows the manger will say no why not take it in and come back and playt the "i'm working for you I tried but he said no" card? As long as you are willing to move your offer up no offer is "too low".

[Wheelboy]

The story of your first attempt illustrates why people act what might be termed disresepctfully to the sales person. In probably 99% of cases that sales person who refused to take the offer to the manager has absolutley no authpority to yes or no to your offer ..none. So where does he get off refusing to take the offer to the manager? Its just pure stupidity. Even if he knows the manger will say no why not take it in and come back and playt the "i'm working for you I tried but he said no" card? As long as you are willing to move your offer up no offer is "too low".

Maybe he knew from past experience that the manager wouldn't accept what I offered.  But then why not play the game and come back with a "Sorry he won't accept" response even if he just went for a pee instead of annoying the S/M.  But, for some reason, he chose not to.  It's so long ago that I don't remember but I'm sure I would have played the game and upped my offer.  After all, they WERE in town and the other dealer was 40km away.  They were the ones who got my servicing too and I had to drive to get it.  No matter.

[hoss]

My experiences (far fewer than yours of course) - Years ago I offered my local Honda dealer what I thought was a fair price for an Accord (it would have been my 3rd Accord but not from this fellow).  He was adamant he couldn't sell for that price and wouldn't even go ask his manager.  I'd done my homework and thought my price was fair.
I drove from there straight to Stratford Honda, 40k away, and said to the salesman "I have a piece of paper here with a price on it that's the price I'm willing to pay today for an Accord.  Another dealer just turned it down 30 minutes ago."  The salesman asked to see it.  I flipped the paper over, he read it, stuck out his hand and said "Shake.  You just bought a car."

I had exactly the same experience with Stratford Honda.  Was shown the invoice, plus the profit they wanted to make, and given a price minus the rebates (at the time)  from Honda.  If I wanted any accesories, I could have them at the dealer cost.  No stress, no fuss.  There was no push for etching, or paint sealer etc.

When I had the car in for it's first oil change the service manager was making arrangements with a local customer (elderly) to have their car picked up for service.  At the same time, I was asked (by the salesman who sold me my car) if I wanted to take a Insight out for a spin, while I was waiting, to see what I thought about it.
 The waiting area did not have an expresso maker or warm cookies, but what it did have was good service. 

[carcrazy]

My standard offer for a new car ($20K-$30K range) is invoice + $500. The dealer had accepted the offer every time (twice). The tough part is to get the admin fee waived. It only worked in one out of two situations. However, when I ended up paying the admin fee ($300), I did not pay the PDI ($250) so in the end it wasn't that bad (the car was too new and it wasn't set at the time; few weeks later it was $250).

Cord: 
In your opinion/experience, is invoice+$500 a fair offer? I know the $500 it is not all the dealer makes usually, but anyway, whatever additional bonuses they get from the manufacturer is their business.

[Cord]

Cord: 
In your opinion/experience, is invoice+$500 a fair offer? I know the $500 it is not all the dealer makes usually, but anyway, whatever additional bonuses they get from the manufacturer is their business.

I don't think there are that many mainstream new cars where that wouldn't be a reasonable offer. On a sub-compact/compact that's practically MSRP anyway.

As always, supply and demand must be accounted for. Speaking from my sphere of experience, that offer wouldn't fly too far on a GT500 or Raptor.

[carcrazy]

Cord: 
In your opinion/experience, is invoice+$500 a fair offer? I know the $500 it is not all the dealer makes usually, but anyway, whatever additional bonuses they get from the manufacturer is their business.

I don't think there are that many mainstream new cars where that wouldn't be a reasonable offer. On a sub-compact/compact that's practically MSRP anyway.

As always, supply and demand must be accounted for. Speaking from my sphere of experience, that offer wouldn't fly too far on a GT500 or Raptor.

I don't know about Ford, but the Mazda3 had about $1500 and the Outlander about $2200 between the invoice and the MSRP.
I recall when I bought the Mazda3, the salesman said he wanted 2% over the invoice which worked out to be just under $500 I was ready to offer. I had a deal in less than 2 minutes. There were no manufacturer rebates at the time.

[Wheelboy]

I had exactly the same experience with Stratford Honda.  Was shown the invoice, plus the profit they wanted to make, and given a price minus the rebates (at the time)  from Honda.  If I wanted any accesories, I could have them at the dealer cost.  No stress, no fuss.  There was no push for etching, or paint sealer etc.
When I had the car in for it's first oil change the service manager was making arrangements with a local customer (elderly) to have their car picked up for service.  At the same time, I was asked (by the salesman who sold me my car) if I wanted to take a Insight out for a spin, while I was waiting, to see what I thought about it.
 The waiting area did not have an expresso maker or warm cookies, but what it did have was good service. 

All we want is the warm fuzzy feeling of not being shafted, abused or otherwise taken advantage of and we don't mind parting with our money eh?  Is it so hard?  But no espresso?  That's a major oversight    Jeeze it's a 2 minute hike to Tim's.

[hoss]

Why I mentioned the expresso and cookies, was from an experience I had with a VW dealer.  I had taken my father-in-laws Rabbit in for it's grossly overpriced oil change, and I mentioned to the service manager, as I was paying that, my father-in-law had mentioned that passenger's heat was blowing somewhat cold, (I had forgot to mention this when we dropped off the car).  As we where an hours drive away from the dealer I asked if he could he simply sit in the car AFTER I warmed it up, and see if it really was too cold, and then we could book an appointment to get it fixed.  "Oh no" he said "we are really too busy to do that you will have to book an appointment".  He then disappeared, I guess for lunch.  So I paid my $100.00 something dollars for the oil change and left.  It turns out that the car was built without a part of the heating ducts installed and when we took it back, in they to order the part and we had to go back.  So it cost us 2 more hours of driving. 

They did have a big screen TV, fresh coffee and warm cookies however!

[Wheelboy]

They did have a big screen TV, fresh coffee and warm cookies however!

I guess they needed to come up with some gimmick to keep people coming back.

[Honda Owner]

So I paid my $100.00 something dollars for the oil change and left

The days of the $29.99 oil change are rapidly leaving us and the reason is simple: synthetic oil. I just bought five litres of Mobil 1 for my Fit and it was $54 taxes in and the K&N oil filter was $15 on top of it. Modern motors make much more heat in order to light the catcon an reduce start up emissions. In the industry there was a rash of engine failures caused by poor oils and high temperature differentials, leading to sludge and engine failure. There are two choices: 5000km/3 month changes outs, or synthetic. Getting customers to change oil every three months is an extreme challenge and the results are dire, such as the Chrysler 2.7 or the aluminum block Toyotas.

The Rabbit calls for synthetic oil. That is why it was $100.

If you do not mention a condition when the car is brought it, taking care of it after the w/o is closed is often not possible. There is a process to deal with issues and it is not as simple as "looking as a problem." A tech has to be assigned the job, the diagnosis made and parts ordered. A service advisor is instructed to never diagnose cars and more than likely he doesn't have the time do so anyway. He is probably working on 25 orders at any given time and unfortunately, not every customer will always get the attention he or she may desire.