Topic: '92 Accord P-brake problems and more

[MD1987]

I got a 1992 Accord sedan with a 2.2L I4 engine with 239154km and it appears to have some issues. They are:

- check engine light on 2 seconds after shifting to D4 (was told this was most likely O2 sensor)
- parking brake goes up and down, but sometimes it just doesn't want to work
- problems of sleepiness after driving with the heat cranked up but windows closed

I think the second problem is due to winter, but then again I see someone shoved in a cheap prepaid long distance phone card in the "chamber". So could that be it?

Third problem I suspect the car is leaking carbon monoxide or something else because everytime I drive with the windows closed and the heater is on to maximum with rear defrost, I get really tired and sleepy few hours after coming home. Also, I was told to check for little white puffs of smoke right after starting the car and I do see them come out from between the PGMFI device is and the black Honda cover on the 2.2 litre. I know I sound like a total newbie, but this is my first car so I don't know all those proper car terms yet.

Okay, so I want to fix this. How much would this run me in terms of money? Should I have this work done at a Honda dealer (if they service cars that old?), a specialized Honda garage, any garage or a chain like Canadian Tire?

[barrie1]

I suggest to you that you ask your friends and Neighbours and or relatives if theyare in your area where they deal. To deal at a Honda Dealership will cost you more money then you need to spend as all dealerships are expensive to have any repairs done. A small independent shop who these other folks know and deal with is usally much more trustworthy and definitely a cheaper hourly rate as well. Its probably a valve cover gasket which shouldn't be all that bad to either have retorqued down or replaced if need be. Don't know the cost of the parts off hand but they shouldn't be that bad and the exhaust system should not be leaking as it just passed a safety test did it not? White smoke coming out the tailpipe may not be anything wrong at all but I would be watching the oil dipstick for any colour change especially if the oil starts to have a whitish colour to it. If it ever does do not get it on your cloths as it will be Sulphuric Acid which will burn holes in your cloths. That would be sign of a leaking headgasket or cracked head but I suspect a leaking gasket instead. Much cheaper and a easy thing to have fixed. When looking for a good garage try to find one where the owner owns the property if you can as he can not leave so he does good honest work 99% of the time. Mistakes do happen but these shops hardly ever make them as they generally really know their stuff. 

[Cord]

1. Forget about it.

2. Go to a auto service shop and get the parking brake fixed. It is probably a seized or broken cable.

3. The same shop can inspect your exhaust system for leaks and replace as necessary. Having the heater and rear defrost on have nothing to do with CO leaks. If you're lucky the exhaust will be fine and you just need a nap.

[MD1987]

1. Forget about it.

2. Go to a auto service shop and get the parking brake fixed. It is probably a seized or broken cable.

3. The same shop can inspect your exhaust system for leaks and replace as necessary. Having the heater and rear defrost on have nothing to do with CO leaks. If you're lucky the exhaust will be fine and you just need a nap.

I read that if you do not get the O2 sensor problem addressed, it will ruin the catalytic converter. This is why I want to see if it is this, and if so, I'd like a fix.

[Cord]

1. Forget about it.

2. Go to a auto service shop and get the parking brake fixed. It is probably a seized or broken cable.

3. The same shop can inspect your exhaust system for leaks and replace as necessary. Having the heater and rear defrost on have nothing to do with CO leaks. If you're lucky the exhaust will be fine and you just need a nap.

I read that if you do not get the O2 sensor problem addressed, it will ruin the catalytic converter. This is why I want to see if it is this, and if so, I'd like a fix.

The cat has probably been destroyed for years already. I wouldn't waste money on that. More urgent problems will come up soon enough.

[MD1987]

1. Forget about it.

2. Go to a auto service shop and get the parking brake fixed. It is probably a seized or broken cable.

3. The same shop can inspect your exhaust system for leaks and replace as necessary. Having the heater and rear defrost on have nothing to do with CO leaks. If you're lucky the exhaust will be fine and you just need a nap.

I read that if you do not get the O2 sensor problem addressed, it will ruin the catalytic converter. This is why I want to see if it is this, and if so, I'd like a fix.

The cat has probably been destroyed for years already. I wouldn't waste money on that. More urgent problems will come up soon enough.

If the cat is destroyed, what quirks in the car do I have to get used to?

[articsteve]

Make sure the heater control is NOT set to re-circulate.

If the car runs and the gas mileage is not terrible, and you don't need to pass an E-test, then cover that check engine lite over with some black tape and forget about it.

Assume (to yourself) that you are in survival mode with this car.  Like your driving across Russia in the 50's.  Fix things when it actually stops running.

[MD1987]

Make sure the heater control is NOT set to re-circulate.

If the car runs and the gas mileage is not terrible, and you don't need to pass an E-test, then cover that check engine lite over with some black tape and forget about it.

Assume (to yourself) that you are in survival mode with this car.  Like your driving across Russia in the 50's.  Fix things when it actually stops running.

The emission test in Quebec is not required for cars I believe, but whatever this problem is it is affecting the gas mileage. I lost a quarter worth with careful driving within less than 100km!

I still don't know who to take it to - Canadian Tire who some people say its good and some people say avoid. They tell me to go see a import car specialist garage but how will I know they won't screw around with me?

One garage was reccomended to me which is beside a mall, but one lady encountered numerous problems with her Ford Taurus there. So I don't know, they may do a good job for them but not for everyone... :-/

[PJungnitsch]

One issue you might be having is the injection system going into 'rich' mode. I'm not really up on injection systems but that's what the computer controlled carb on my truck does, if the O2 sensor (or any other for that matter) isn't working. It's a fall back position for the engine control computer that is safer for the engine than running too lean, but wastes gas and fills up the cat with carbon.

By itself the 02 sensor part isn't that expensive, in the $30.00 to $100.00 range. Easy to check by phoning up CT, UAP/NAPA or whatever. Removing it isn't super complicated either usually. They can be rusted in place in old cars but my 20 year old one just unscrewed when I took a wrench to it.

[Cord]

I lost a quarter worth with careful driving within less than 100km!

What exactly does this mean?

[barrie1]

I would think it means he is useing way more fuel then the car should or he has a leak possibly in a fuel line and or as well. What milage do you expect with this vehicle for both city and highway? 

[Accordingly]

My '96 Accord (330K on the 2.2 engine) still achieves 7/100 on the highway, 10/100 mixed. A '92 would likely be comparable.

I don't think it unusual that you get tired after driving for hours with heat on full blast. Artic's suggestion to check the recirc mode is a good one...along the lines of "is it plugged in?"

[articsteve]

Here are the problems with getting a $1600 car.

1.  PPL expect them to function like $16000 cars.
2.  PPL that buy $1600. cars MUST be able to do most of the "tune up" work themselves.

DON"T go to Canadian Tire

It's easy to see if the fuel injection is dumping fuel.  Look at the spark plugs.  If they are wet, then yes you might have a rich condition going on, but look at them after a 30 minute ride.

Change the air filter.

If you must change the O2 sensor you better get a firm price because those sensors can ranch from $30. to $130. depending on brand and the repair shops usually use the expensive ones with new connectors which save them time.  Labour would be on top of that.

If you're at Canadian Tire buy a bottle of "Bars Leak" and carry it in the car.  If you're rad starts leaking the majority of the time this stuff will stop the leak.

Did you manage to get this car registered in your name?  How much is your insurance? 

[Squishy]

I agree, don't go to Canadian Tire.  There are some good guys there, especially in the rural ones, but the majority of the ones I've dealt with were f-ups, for lack of a better word.  Great place to get supplies, but go somewhere else for repairs.  Try to find a clean, well-kept shop that you've never heard of.  There has to be a reason they don't advertise much yet still get enough profit to keep the shop in good condition.

As for your problems:
#1 - who told you it was most likely the O2 sensor?  Did a mechanic pull the code and tell you that, or was it just a friend who had to replace the O2 sensor after the CEL came on?

#2 - can you describe that better?  When the parking brake "doesn't work" is there resistance in the handle?  Usually a frozen or broken cable will be either no resistance at all (broken) or you can't pull it up (frozen).  Intermittent working with equal resistance at the handle is probably a loose spring on the shoe or an improper installation.  It could also be a bad wheel cylinder, depending on how your parking brake system is set up.

#3 - You could always bring a battery operated CO monitor like they have for basements in the car with you, but I suspect it's just the heat making you sleepy.  I have to drive with the car at around 18-20 degrees max or I start to get drowsy at the wheel.

[PJungnitsch]

Here's a place to get an idea of parts prices for your car:

http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.com/parts/apocanada/models.jsp?make=HO&year=1992

[articsteve]

Try showing those prices to the repair shop.  They'll tell him to go elsewhere.

As you know it's a whole different ball game buying beaters if your up to the repairs yourself.  However, buying a beater and then paying full pop for repairs, sometimes trial by error, is a bad place to be.

Again, my 2 cents is to keep driving it, hopefully short city lite duty, and fix only what is absolutely necessary.

Lets talk about the balance belt and timing belt/cam bearings/tensioner condition ..... OR NOT.  See what I'm getting at.    KISS / Keep It Simple ..... 

[PJungnitsch]

As you know it's a whole different ball game buying beaters if your up to the repairs yourself.  However, buying a beater and then paying full pop for repairs, sometimes trial by error, is a bad place to be.

Agree. Unless he can find a 'beater-minded mechanic' which can be tough to find.

To the OP, as people here keep saying, you may want to save your repair money for big stuff. I haven't had a parking brake in my truck for fifteen years. I leave it in first gear, or if parked on a nasty slope, kick a rock under the tires.

[1TSX]

As you know it's a whole different ball game buying beaters if your up to the repairs yourself.  However, buying a beater and then paying full pop for repairs, sometimes trial by error, is a bad place to be.

Agree. Unless he can find a 'beater-minded mechanic' which can be tough to find.

To the OP, as people here keep saying, you may want to save your repair money for big stuff. I haven't had a parking brake in my truck for fifteen years. I leave it in first gear, or if parked on a nasty slope, kick a rock under the tires.

Maybe that should be your next mod.

[PJungnitsch]

Maybe that should be your next mod.

Not a lot of steep parking in Lethbridge.

[MD1987]

My '96 Accord (330K on the 2.2 engine) still achieves 7/100 on the highway, 10/100 mixed. A '92 would likely be comparable.

I don't think it unusual that you get tired after driving for hours with heat on full blast. Artic's suggestion to check the recirc mode is a good one...along the lines of "is it plugged in?"

Recirc button is not pressed. I don't know if it is plugged in or not...

articsteve: I will take a look at the air filter sometime soon. Any brands you personally reccomend for a 2.2L Inline 4 from Honda?

I don't even drive it regularly because at least 4 days of every week it stays at home. One of the reasons is because its an old car.

Squishy: The parking brake pulls up and down with no resistance. But this is not that bad as the other problems, but I still wanted to see how much this would cost anyways.