CD Article: 22008 CanadianDriver Fuel Economy Challenge

[CD_Editor]

Today's Feature Article:



Over the next four months, CanadianDriver staff will be testing the "real-world" fuel consumption of four different vehicles when driven aggressively and conservatively.  Those results will then be compared to official Energuide fuel economy ratings.
   

  More:

Read the article | View the photos: 2008 Toyota Camry; 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel | All The Feature Articles

[Craig]

This should be interesting.

[mdxtasy]

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[2hondas1BMW]

Wow its the year 22008 already? Damn I'm old.

[windstarguy]

This is a great idea, and I'm looking forward to the series. Any chance at the end you could also calculate CO2 emissions?

[jww]

This is a great idea, and I'm looking forward to the series. Any chance at the end you could also calculate CO2 emissions?

 

I will be most anxious to see how the diesel fares in the real world. I am a big fan of the recent advances in diesel technology, and would like to see more diesel-fueled cars.

On a side-note, I see a bunch of new model year cars with that Flexi-Fuel label on the trunk or tailgate. What's that all about? Can't you run ethanol in most regular unleaded drinking cars?

[sirAQUAMAN64]

What are they trying to compare? A GC CRD with a CR-V?

I skimmed thru it, but they aren't comparing gas to diesel/hybrid of the same model, so what results are they looking for? Just to see which comes closest to the Energuide rating?

[Greg]

Doesn't the Grand Cherokee Diesel have a 5 speed auto (not 4 speed)?

[Mark D]

good to see.  hopefully the EPA numbers are more accurate.  I'm the kind of driver who gets better than post mileage, simply because I go the speed limit, maybe 5kph (thats not to say I don't take it up every now and then).  I'm getting consistantly 6.2 litres/100km in my 2001 Neon 5speed on my daily commute, which is FAR better than what its rated at.

Anyway, good mix of vehicles.  I would have loved to see how a 300C/Charger RT does in this test.

[HeliDriver]

On a side-note, I see a bunch of new model year cars with that Flexi-Fuel label on the trunk or tailgate. What's that all about? Can't you run ethanol in most regular unleaded drinking cars?

I'm pretty sure that most cars can take up to 10% ethanol in the fuel without any problems. Not sure if it's legislated, but I don't think you'll find any unleaded fuel that contains more than 10% ethanol.

Those Flex-Fuel vehicles can run anything up to E85, which is 85% ethanol.

[visavis]

For the 'fuel efficient' leg of the test. You should also observe how badly you hold up traffic. 

[JBrill]

Being the owner of a 2005 Passat TDI Variant I'm always interested in these types of comparisons and reviews and the end result is sure to demonstrate that Energuide ratings tend to be on the optimistic side unless you really baby they way you drive.

However, I think you should really consider also expanding the review on fuel consumption by adding the exact same model with gas only engines to also demonstrate, if any, fuel efficiencies offered by the alternatives.  I would hazard a guess that the Hybrid Camry isn't as fuel efficient as the Gas Camry in some situations.  However, the Diesel vs Gas comparison should show Diesel always being more fuel efficient but then you could compare if performance suffers and emission trade-offs, same with the Hybrid. 

Also, if possible, can you look at the entire carbon footprint issue.  Sure, Hybrids are "fuel efficient", but what is the enviromental impact of added depleted batteries after 10 years?  Does this offset the emissions you saved on?  Also, does the manufacturing of Hybrids have the same impact?  The cynic in me would guess we are merely trading one evil for another, all things being equal.  The reality is probably that small/lighter choices make the difference, not engine choice.

If you can accomplish all that, you'd have yourself a really useful study and article 

JB

[wing]

Sounds like an article for a scientist and lab, not auto journalists.

[JBrill]

Sounds like an article for a scientist and lab, not auto journalists.

Perhaps.  The Gas vs Hybrid vs Diesel comparison is definitely within an auto journalists realm  and to bring up the issues of overall carbon footprint would go a long ways at generating debate and further exploration of a complex issue   

I've been in many animated debates with hybrid drivers about the virtues of their technology. When I bring up real world performance (my much larger Diesel get better millage than their hybrid in some situations (i.e. highway driving above 75 kph)) and the fact that I won't have an environmental disaster in 10 years with the disposal of highly corrosive batteries, most concede that they haven't been truly happy with their purchase.  This needs to be discussed up front with potential hybrid purchasers so that an informed decision can be made.  In city stop and go driving, hybrids out perform hands down.  When you look at the bigger picture, do they?  I don't know  but would love to find out.

JB

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Well the van test took 6 months(?), I guess the fuel economy challenge is set to take up the next 20,000 years!

[JBrill]

Well the van test took 6 months(?), I guess the fuel economy challenge is set to take up the next 20,000 years!

Touché!  BTW, you owe me a new keyboard 

[G35X]

Here we are talking about different issues, although they are related…

Reduction of fuel consumption:
Desirable from the standpoint of
- Home economics
- Air pollution including CO2 emission
- Dependence on foreign oil
Not desirable for oil producers and oil companies…

Diesel vs. Gas:
- Diesel engines are more efficient (thermally) than gas engines
- Diesel fuel is packed with more (about 15%) latent energy than gas.
- Diesel fuel is sold by volume (rather than the energy content) at
  about the same price as gas.
- Because of the above three points diesel is 20 to 30 percent more
  economical in operation not taking the higher price of diesel powered
  automobiles into consideration.
- Diesel engines cost more than gas engines to manufacture.
- Exhaust of gas engines is very clean thanks to the 3-way cat
  converter and computer controlled fuel and air management
- Diesel exhaust is more difficult (and costly) to clean because of the
  wide range of lean/rich combustion.  Lean means NOX, rich means
  unburned hydrocarbon and soot. The 3-way cat converter for gas
  engines cannot be used for diesel engines.
- Because of higher thermal efficiency diesel engines emit less CO2
  per distance when compared with comparable gas engines.

Hybrid
The following features are beneficial for both gas and diesel engines:
- Recovery of energy when coasting and braking
- Idling stop
Benefit for gasoline engine hybrids:
- If gas engine is relatively small for the weight of body, the engine
   can operate at a higher efficiency (wider throttle opening, Atkinson
   cycle design etc.) with the electric boost when needed (green
   turbo).
Undesirables:
- Higher cost (the same goes to new, cleaner diesel engines)
- Heavy weight that compromises driving dynamics

Jbrill wrote:
“The reality is probably that small/lighter choices make the difference, not engine choice.”

Yes, I agree.

Jbill wrote:
“…what is the enviromental impact of added depleted batteries after 10 years?”

As a metal nickel (and lithium in the future) is much less harmful than lead. While hybrid battery packs are not user-replaceable, common lead acid batteries are.  Chances of hybrid batteries (expired and dealer-replaced) dumped in the ground or water are, I think, very slim.



 

[safristi]

Here I'll save ya ALL MONEY and TIME............small Diesels are THE BEST....small Hbrids in Town are Fine as are MOST small cars.....On the Hi way they are less efficient..noisier..err SMALLER....BIG FASTER HYBRIDS are a CROCK...and ME TOO BIG SUV HYBRIDS are a JOKE.....


 Now back to regular programming...of bringing mega Diesels to KANADA............

[The Mighty Duck]

- Dependence on foreign oil

Don't we have the 2nd largest proven oil reserves in the world now?  Not easy to get at, I know, but it's there... 

[safristi]

..Albertan OIL dug out by Newfies.....it don't get no FOREIGNER than THAT!!!!

 BUY JESUS that frikkin BEACH is so dark like it's a whatyacallit .... ,,,. ......TAR SANDS   ..ME JANE...