Topic: CD Article: 2008 Chevrolet Malibu

[jcon]

I admit that I can't seriously continue this thread if the 3 series Bimmer is now part of this discussion.

THIS? This is where you draw the line???

[The Fuzz]

My co-worker has a Saturn Aura. Once in a while we drive in together. When I get back into my 6 I feel like I'm driving a Hyundai Pony circa 1990.

Chalk up one fan for the Aura.

[drederick]

What a crazy way to introduce a "segment buster".  Offer a 4 cylinder/4 speed and then tell those very same buyers that it might come later with a 6 speed.    What buyer wants to hear that; that they might not be getting the best proper setup right out of the gate.

Nope, Malibu will do about as well as the Cobalt. 

articsteve again you offer nothing when asked for some scrap of evidence to back up what you state as fact.
Lets see:

Aura had no 4cylinder/4speed auto powertrain combo in 2007 - no proof provided from you otherwise

GM will have a 6speed auto/4cylinder powertrain combo soon enough - no proof provided that this will not occur and will not be a good powertrain combo, regardless if Toyota has trouble with their transmissions or not. Just because Toyota and Honda cannot do this is not a reason GM cannot. GM will get this done.
PS you were wrong again - the Euro's do in fact make a 4cyl/6speed auto already.... VW check them out sometime

Doesn't it suck to be wrong all the time?

[articsteve]

My co-worker has a Saturn Aura. Once in a while we drive in together. When I get back into my 6 I feel like I'm driving a Hyundai Pony circa 1990.

Chalk up one fan for the Aura.

When I get back into my 6 I feel like I'm driving a Hyundai Pony circa 1990.

Wrong decade. 

[articsteve]

You really should a test drive in the new Malibu if you want to seriously continue this thread

A red one. 

I'll need to wait till I'm out of town.  Maybe the next rental. 

[articsteve]

PS you were wrong again - the Euro's do in fact make a 4cyl/6speed auto already.... VW check them out sometime

In a normally aspirated motor   

So far there has been an attempt to associate the Maliboohoo with the BMW 3 series and now the VW 2.0 turbo.

Rabid enthusiasm.    

[sirAQUAMAN64]

PS you were wrong again - the Euro's do in fact make a 4cyl/6speed auto already.... VW check them out sometime

In a normally aspirated motor   

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

The only Aura with the 4 cyl was the Hybrid. When did that change? It was Hybrid, XE 3.5L V6, XR 3.6L V6. That was one of the problems, most of the Cdn sales in the mid-sized sedan market are 4-cyl. Is the XE 4-cyl new for '08 or was delayed intro?

Now, about that Malibu...

[carcrazy]

You really should a test drive in the new Malibu if you want to seriously continue this thread

A red one. 

I'll need to wait till I'm out of town.  Maybe the next rental. 

I was surprised to see more and more Camrys in the rental lots in the US and Canada. Same goes for Sonatas.

[articsteve]

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

The only Aura with the 4 cyl was the Hybrid. When did that change? It was Hybrid, XE 3.5L V6, XR 3.6L V6. That was one of the problems, most of the Cdn sales in the mid-sized sedan market are 4-cyl. Is the XE 4-cyl new for '08 or was delayed intro?

Now, about that Malibu...

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

Your too fast.  Came back to change it.    Doesn't anybody work during the day.  I asked one of the guys about that and he said ya, the City's have 6 speed autos.    OPPS.      They gotta suck.   

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

The only Aura with the 4 cyl was the Hybrid. When did that change? It was Hybrid, XE 3.5L V6, XR 3.6L V6. That was one of the problems, most of the Cdn sales in the mid-sized sedan market are 4-cyl. Is the XE 4-cyl new for '08 or was delayed intro?

Now, about that Malibu...

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

Your too fast.  Came back to change it.    Doesn't anybody work during the day.  I asked one of the guys about that and he said ya, the City's have 6 speed autos.    OPPS.      They gotta suck.   

Of course they do, they're Aisins    (I believe, if like other 6AT Tiptronic VWs)

[articsteve]

You really should a test drive in the new Malibu if you want to seriously continue this thread

A red one. 

I'll need to wait till I'm out of town.  Maybe the next rental. 

I was surprised to see more and more Camrys in the rental lots in the US and Canada. Same goes for Sonatas.

Thirfty up here buys direct from the dealer.  I've seen Camrys with National stickers at Pearson so I'm thinking those are fleet sales.

[drederick]

PS you were wrong again - the Euro's do in fact make a 4cyl/6speed auto already.... VW check them out sometime

In a normally aspirated motor   

Yep, the lovely City Golf and City Jetta 

The only Aura with the 4 cyl was the Hybrid. When did that change? It was Hybrid, XE 3.5L V6, XR 3.6L V6. That was one of the problems, most of the Cdn sales in the mid-sized sedan market are 4-cyl. Is the XE 4-cyl new for '08 or was delayed intro?

Now, about that Malibu...

The 2.4 Aura is new for the 2008 model year:

http://media.gm.com/ca/gm/en/products/saturn/index.html

Aura - The Saturn Aura midsize sport sedan is the 2007 North American Car of the Year, and for 2008, Saturn expands on the popular attributes of the Aura by adding a four-cylinder model for buyers who desire Aura's styling panache but with the economy of a four-cylinder engine under the hood. The new base XE features GM's proven 2.4-liter dual overhead cam Ecotec I-4 engine.

[articsteve]

Of course they do, they're Aisins    (I believe, if like other 6AT Tiptronic VWs)

I didn't mean the actual tranny, just meant mated to the City egg beater of an engine.  A little lack of HP there for a 6 speed.  That's kinda my theme about putting two many gears in small HP motors.

I hope the Aisins are a better tranny than the 5 speed trip ZF installed in the 97 or so and up Passat and Audi 4.

My son's 08 Rabbit runs so much better with the new HP.  When it turned 2000 km some type of programing in the ECM must have changed and it went from what a 07 was to what is now; much improved.  

[articsteve]

The new base XE features GM's proven 2.4-liter dual overhead cam Ecotec I-4 engine.

Exact same power train that is found in the 2008 Malibu and the rest of those GM platforms.

Just for the record, in 2007, an Aura was available with same 2.4 with the same 4 speed auto.  It was their version of a Hybrid  even though totally lame.  It had a separate power assist unit attached to it and of course nobody bought it.  I've already posted a diagram of it on this forum.  I might go find it.    But never the less, it was the same 2.4 with the same 4 speed that is in 2008s.

The 2007 AURA Green Line Hybrid is a 4-door, 5-passenger family sedan, available in one trim only, the Sedan. Upon introduction, the AURA Green Line Hybrid is equipped with a standard 2.4-liter, I4, 164-horsepower, hybrid engine. A 4-Speed automatic transmission.

[drederick]

The new base XE features GM's proven 2.4-liter dual overhead cam Ecotec I-4 engine.

Exact same power train that is found in the 2008 Malibu and the rest of those GM platforms.

Just for the record, in 2007, an Aura was available with same 2.4 with the same 4 speed auto.  It was their version of a Hybrid  even though totally lame.  It had a separate power assist unit attached to it and of course nobody bought it.  I've already posted a diagram of it on this forum.  I might go find it.    But never the less, it was the same 2.4 with the same 4 speed that is in 2008s.

The 2007 AURA Green Line Hybrid is a 4-door, 5-passenger family sedan, available in one trim only, the Sedan. Upon introduction, the AURA Green Line Hybrid is equipped with a standard 2.4-liter, I4, 164-horsepower, hybrid engine. A 4-Speed automatic transmission.

Just for the record the 2.4/4speed auto in the 2007 Aura was a hybrid specific powertrain. No, not the same as the normal 2.4/4speed auto that now is appearing in the 2008 Malibu or the 2008 Aura:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/Whats%20New/07_LAT_%20car.doc

"New Hybrid Powertrain for 2007 Saturn Aura Green Line
The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid’s internal combustion engine is similar to the Ecotec 2.4L VVT (RPO LE5), with all its premium features, including fully variable valve timing. The new Aura is a transverse application. The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid engine is matched to GM Powertrains’s Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed automatic transmission developed specifically for GM’s new Hybrid system. "

What is interesting is that you now know more than Toyota and their boast of an all-new 1.8 in the Corolla, and now GM because GM thought that they were just introducing the 2.4/4speed auto for the 2008 Aura model.... as I posted earlier:

The 2.4 Aura is new for the 2008 model year:

http://media.gm.com/ca/gm/en/products/saturn/index.html

Aura - The Saturn Aura midsize sport sedan is the 2007 North American Car of the Year, and for 2008, Saturn expands on the popular attributes of the Aura by adding a four-cylinder model for buyers who desire Aura's styling panache but with the economy of a four-cylinder engine under the hood. The new base XE features GM's proven 2.4-liter dual overhead cam Ecotec I-4 engine.

[articsteve]

The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid engine is matched to GM Powertrains’s Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed automatic transmission developed specifically for GM’s new Hybrid system.

Dude, that 4T45 is GM's WORKHORSE 4 speed.  It's part of the famous GM parts bin.  I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, but it's nothing new.  The media division of any company always say stuff like "all new" or "specially formulated" .  Just like Toyota did when they describe the 2.4 going into the Matrix and Coralla as "all new". Ya, new to those two units. 

The "MN5" 4T45 is able to handle vehicles up to 4500 lb (2041 kg) GVWR. Final drive ratios include 3.63, 3.29, 3.05, and 3.91. This same transmission is used in the Saturn VUE Green Line hybrid vehicle with the addition of an auxiliary oil pump and hybrid-aware electronics. It is designed for 3.0–3.4 L engines producing up to 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m) of torque.

Gear ratios:

1 2 3 4 R
2.95 1.62 1.00 0.68 2.14

Applications:

3.63:1
Chevrolet Cobalt
Pontiac Pursuit
Pontiac Grand Am base
Saturn ION
Saturn VUE
Chevrolet Malibu 2.2
Chevrolet Malibu Maxx 2.2
3.05:1
Chevrolet Malibu 3.5
Chevrolet Malibu Maxx 3.5
Pontiac G6 V6
3.29:1
Pontiac G6 GT
Pontiac Grand Am GT & GT1
3.91:1
Pontiac G6 base

So despite GM throwing on a generator on the side of it's 2.4, the 2007 Aura "Hybrid" was still powered by the same 2.4 latest gen Ecotec VVT coupled to GM's parts bin 4T45 4 speed tranny that has now landed in the 2008 Mailbu 4 cylinder.  The same tranny that was in the 3.5 V6 Malibu Maxx.  It's all the same hardware.  Pretty old stuff really.    The skin is new, the skin of the interior is new, some other stuff will be new, but the powertrain is not (4 cylinder car).   

The GM Hybrid Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) system in the 2007 Aura Green Line combines an electric motor/generator with a 2.4L Ecotec VVT four-cylinder engine, Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed transmission and Cobasys 36V NiMH battery pack.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/saturn_aura_gre.html

[drederick]

The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid engine is matched to GM Powertrains’s Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed automatic transmission developed specifically for GM’s new Hybrid system.

Dude, that 4T45 is GM's WORKHORSE 4 speed.  It's part of the famous GM parts bin.  I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, but it's nothing new.  The media division of any company always say stuff like "all new" or "specially formulated" .  Just like Toyota did when they describe the 2.4 going into the Matrix and Coralla as "all new". Ya, new to those two units. 

The "MN5" 4T45 is able to handle vehicles up to 4500 lb (2041 kg) GVWR. Final drive ratios include 3.63, 3.29, 3.05, and 3.91. This same transmission is used in the Saturn VUE Green Line hybrid vehicle with the addition of an auxiliary oil pump and hybrid-aware electronics. It is designed for 3.0–3.4 L engines producing up to 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m) of torque.

So despite GM throwing on a generator on the side of it's 2.4, the 2007 Aura "Hybrid" was still powered by the same 2.4 latest gen Ecotec VVT coupled to GM's parts bin 4T45 4 speed tranny that has now landed in the 2008 Mailbu 4 cylinder.  The same tranny that was in the 3.5 V6 Malibu Maxx.  It's all the same hardware.  Pretty old stuff really.    The skin is new, the skin of the interior is new, some other stuff will be new, but the powertrain is not (4 cylinder car).   

The GM Hybrid Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) system in the 2007 Aura Green Line combines an electric motor/generator with a 2.4L Ecotec VVT four-cylinder engine, Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed transmission and Cobasys 36V NiMH battery pack.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/saturn_aura_gre.html

Close but..... wrong again:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07car.htm
Notice how the 2007 Aura Hybrid 2.4 has its own engine code - LAT - that is not the same as any other 2.4 engine.
Also, notice that the 4speed auto transmission used with this engine also has its own unique engine code - ME7

and again.....

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/Whats%20New/07_LAT_%20car.doc

"New Hybrid Powertrain for 2007 Saturn Aura Green Line
The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid’s internal combustion engine is similar to the Ecotec 2.4L VVT (RPO LE5), with all its premium features, including fully variable valve timing. The new Aura is a transverse application. The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid engine is matched to GM Powertrains’s Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed automatic transmission developed specifically for GM’s new Hybrid system. "

Now I draw your attention to the following:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2008/08car.htm

Look down to the 2.4 ecotec engines (and past the listings for the Hybrid 2.4 Ecotec engines that are not the same) and look for the first Malibu listing:

ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Chevrolet Malibu  P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 6T40 (MH8) P SS WN

You should read up on this 4cylinder/6speed auto combo and then send this info to Toyota so they can see if they can create such a powertrain LOL because you seem to think they are incapable.

[articsteve]

Notice how the 2007 Aura Hybrid 2.4 has its own engine code - LAT - that is not the same as any other 2.4 engine.
Also, notice that the 4speed auto transmission used with this engine also has its own unique engine code

There is no question the 2.4 Hybrid has it's own engine code.  It's got a giant generator affixed to the side of it.     But, it is the same lastest Ecotec 2.4 VVT.

Look down to the 2.4 ecotec engines (and past the listings for the Hybrid 2.4 Ecotec engines that are not the same) and look for the first Malibu listing:

This what I see as per this link.

ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Chevrolet Cobalt P PL
  SS WN Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) FWD P SS WN Getrag F23/5 (M86) P SS WN
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Chevrolet Malibu  P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 6T40 (MH8) P SS WN     
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Chevrolet Malibu P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) FWD P SS WN     
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
 Pontiac G6 (4DrNB) P PL
  SS WN Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) FWD P SS WN     
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Pontiac G5 P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) FWD P SS WN Getrag F23/5 (M86) P SS WN
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Pontiac Solstice P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 5L40 (M82) RWD P SS  WN Aisin AR5 (MA5) P SS WN
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)   Saturn Sky  P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 5L40 (M82) RWD P SS  WN Aisin AR5 (MA5) P SS WN
ECOTEC 2.4L I 4 VVT (LE5)
  Saturn Aura P PL
 SS WN Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) FWD P SS WN

The Hydra-Matic 6T40 (MH8) is the 6 speed.  So what    It's going into the 4 cylinder LTZ model at a price point nobody will buy.  That we have already discussed.

The facts are that the 2008 Malibu is getting the same 4 speed transmission that they use in a gazillion cars already.  The facts are that the 4 cylinder engine used in the 2008 Malibu is the same ECOTEC 2.4 VVT that they already use in a gazillion cars including some Cobalts.  The facts are that in 2007 the Aura "hybrid", was powered by the same ECOTEC 2.4 VVT and the tranny was the same 4T45 4 speed auto.

In conclusion, the powertrain in the 2008 Malibu 4 banger is no different than one would find in a Cobalt Sport.  It is NO segment buster.   


OVER AND OUT     

New Applications in 2008 Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura and VUE

The Ecotec 2.4L VVT powers the new Chevrolet Malibu sedan and initially begins the model year mated with the Hydra-Matic 4T45 (MN5) four speed FWD automatic transmission and then midway through the model year is mated to the new Hydra-Matic 6T40 (MH8) six-speed FWD automatic transmission. The Saturn Aura is also a new application for 2008 model year and is equipped with the 4T45 (MN5) transmission. Carryover applications which use the Ecotec 2.4L I4 VVT ( LE5 ) include: Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G5, G6, all mated to the 4T45 (MN5) transmission, and an available Getrag F23 (M86) five-speed manual transmission available on the Cobalt and G5. The Pontiac Solstice, and Saturn Sky, use the  Hydra-Matic 5L40 (M82) five-speed automatic RWD transmission or the Aisin AR5 five-speed manual transmission. In the Truck Portfolio, the Ecotec 2.4L I4 VVT (LE5) is a new application for the new design Saturn VUE, and along with the Chevrolet HHR Passenger and Panel vans, use the the 4T45 (MN5 ) four-speed FWD automatic transmission

[drederick]

I will try and keep this as simple as possible, and if you don't understand this then it is pretty sad:

1) 2008 is the first year for the 2.4/4speed auto powertrain combo in the Saturn Aura - PROOF:
http://media.gm.com/ca/gm/en/products/saturn/index.html

Aura - The Saturn Aura midsize sport sedan is the 2007 North American Car of the Year, and for 2008, Saturn expands on the popular attributes of the Aura by adding a four-cylinder model for buyers who desire Aura's styling panache but with the economy of a four-cylinder engine under the hood. The new base XE features GM's proven 2.4-liter dual overhead cam Ecotec I-4 engine.

And if you don't like GM telling you that your wrong hows about this very website:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/07aura.htm
The XR features a 3.6 litre V6 with dual overhead camshafts and variable valve timing (VVT) that makes 252 horsepower and 251 pounds feet of torque at 3,200 rpm. It's the same engine found in the Cadillac CTS. This engine is mated to GM's first application of a six-speed automatic transmission with front-wheel drive.

The XE also gets a V6, but this is an overhead valve engine (with VVT) making 224 hp and 220 lb.ft torque at 4,000 rpm.

2) the hybrid powertrain IS different than the 2.4 in the 2008 Malibu, Aura, Cobalt et al:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07car.htm
Notice how the 2007 Aura Hybrid 2.4 has its own engine code - LAT - that is not the same as any other 2.4 engine.
Also, notice that the 4speed auto transmission used with this engine also has its own unique code - ME7

and again.....

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/Whats%20New/07_LAT_%20car.doc

"New Hybrid Powertrain for 2007 Saturn Aura Green Line
The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid’s internal combustion engine is similar to the Ecotec 2.4L VVT (RPO LE5), with all its premium features, including fully variable valve timing. The new Aura is a transverse application. The Ecotec 2.4L Hybrid engine is matched to GM Powertrains’s Hydra-Matic 4T45 four-speed automatic transmission developed specifically for GM’s new Hybrid system. "

[Greg B.]

I finally found a few examples on the lot at the local Chevy dealer here in town. I wasn't able to do much other than look at the exteriors and peer through the windows, but a few observations:

- these cars seem narrow for their overall length. They also seem very low.

- the exterior design is very attractive

- a couple of examples had rather unattractive paint colors. The dark gray metallic is a step backwards from recent GM versions of that shade while the antique bronze metallic appeared to be one of those "polychromic" paints that changes shade as you change your angle of approach. It was not appealing at all. The ebony metallic was very nice, OTOH.

- the base LS model gray interior, while an improvement over many other examples, was still not very appealing thanks to the color or lack thereof. Please god, let us get away from gray interiors. By contrast, the same model in the cashmere/cocoa version looked tremendous. The only LT models were the ebony interiors, which, while well-done, suffered from a lack of contrast and seemed very dark and dingy.

- the LT flangeless alloy wheels looked very good, while the LS model painted alloys managed to look like a plastic wheel cover.

- the rear styling is less offensive in person than in the pics.

All models on the lot were 4-cylinder versions with sticker prices as equipped from $24K to $28K. When compared to a Camry or an Accord at that range, they appear to compete quite well.

As an aside, they will really need to heavily discount the leftover '07 models sitting next to these on the lot to move them out. The difference is astounding.