Topic: CD Article: 2008 BMW 1 Series coupe

[mmret]

Those types of comparos don't have relevance here at CTC.

The only thing we want to know, is how much it will cost in the US vs Canada?

We also want to know the ratio of red to black dots

[Jameel]

Porsche 911 vs Audi R8 vs F430 vs  Gallardo or GTI vs STI vs Mazadspeed3 vs BMW 3 series vs Audi S4, etc... Why should this comparison be any different?

At the top end you don't have as much selection, and either of those cars (911/R8/F430) are so stupidly fast that exploiting differences in layout is essentially beyond the capability of anyone who can actually afford the damn car.

At the lower end you may see those comparisons by spoiled American children who will:
1. get chrome dubs
2. 20% tint, 5% on the back
3. lower the car to 1" off the ground
4. proceed to brag about their kills on the internet

The wealthier ones will get the 3 or S4, not so wealthy ones will get GTIs and MS3s and take abuse from the 335/S4 drivers. The rotten ones will get an M3, RS4. You also forgot the Evo, G35, 350Z.

Those types of comparos don't have relevance here at CTC.
GTI vs. MS3 is sensible, but reaching into BMW 3.0 twin turbo territory is a big stretch.

Actually I've seen a comparison of "cheaper" cars like GTI vs STI vs Mazadspeed3 vs BMW 3 series vs Audi S4, etc. in car magazines, like Motortrend, Road and track, car and driver, etc...

While I agree the GTI is a far stretch the MS3 and the STI boast some pretty good numbers.  I think, they can still be compared. 

Ferrari can make use of ultra lightweight, expensive raw materials to produce such a car.  I highly doubt Honda can slap on a carbon fibre chassis into the next Civic.  How about aluminum?  Who can fix an aluminum car if it ever were to get into an accident?  Insurance would not be cheap.

While I agree Honda and Toyota are not going to put Carbon Fiber on their Civic and Carolla.  Maybe one day we can have Aluminum on some econobox. Remember when paddle shifters came out on the Ferrari F355 in 1995.  Now, even econoboxes have pseudo-paddle shifters. Or when ABS use to be only in Luxury cars. 

Technology will eventually trickle down, it may take decades put it does happen.

[mdxtasy]

Technology does trickle down but electronics are cheap to manufacturer and pass down...raw materials are tougher. 

[safristi]

..Hey...a wet Diaper....also trickles DOWN...that's why down feels so warm.....Oh PISS_ORFF Saf......well send ya a B.M !!! #1....if ya cool it....fer FREE signed Helmut
 ArsenPfefferwangler...HEAD ON OFF Kustomized RELATIONS...meet me outside tha "CADDY!!!" shack at Numbumring

[Mitlov]

Actually I've seen a comparison of "cheaper" cars like GTI vs STI vs Mazadspeed3 vs BMW 3 series vs Audi S4, etc. in car magazines, like Motortrend, Road and track, car and driver, etc...

While I agree the GTI is a far stretch the MS3 and the STI boast some pretty good numbers.  I think, they can still be compared. 

You found a magazine that did a comparison shootout with a GTI against an S4?  Seriously?  What magazine?  The S4 is twice the price, has twice the cylinders and twice the horsepower, and puts power through twice as many wheels.  I can't imagine how you would compare them.

[safristi]

..try ....wait fer it a HALF_ASSED COMPARO.......yer wlcome....

[Wolfe]

I love the idea of the 1 series since the 3 series seems to have settled into comfortable middle age.

For practical purposes I would have liked to see a hatchback with a coupe-like profile a la my old 240sx or the Acura RSX, but that would have added weight so .

I guess when you compare it to all the SUVs that people drive these days, yah it's a light car.

My 4WD SUV weighs in at 1524Kg/3350lbs 

My old AWD SUV weighed about 2900lbs. It wasn't made by BMW though, nor was it a high performance machine.

Hey, maybe they'll come out with a 135i CSL version for all the lightweight-lovers.  It will have a carbon fiber roof, no air conditioning or stereo, plexiglass windows, and no sound deadening.  It will cost $16 000 more than the standard 135i, but as they say - less is more! 

I certainly hope they don't call it an M1 though. 

Oh, and don't forget it would need a cardboard trunk floor and plastic trunk lid.

[Giant Dwarf]

99% can be sold with automatics.  99% can be purchased by badge-whoring, brain-dead, Paris Hilton wannabes.  It can be as homely as a 3-legged pug.  It can weigh as much as three Hummers.  I don't care.  When you pack one of BMW's most exciting engines ever into their smallest and cheapest 4-seater, you've got a car that I want.  As long as 1% are available with a stickshift for me, and as long as the reports keep coming in about how wonderful a machine it is to drive -- lively and with the most exceptional steering -- I fail to see why we need to waste two pages on how heavy it is.  It's semi-luxurious, reasonably comfortable and very safe.  These things add weight.  Get over it. 

I am a BMW fan; this is no secret 'round these parts.  I would absolutely LOVE to have a 335, but given my measly salary, that ain't happening any time soon... at least not a new one anyway.  But, at nearly $10k less than a 335, the 135 suddenly makes a lot of sense to me. 

Personally, I would like to summarize thus:   

In all honesty I'm surprised an MX-5 owner would write such a statement.

Because this is a discussion board, that has a discussion thread regarding the BMW 1-series.  That's why we've wasted 3 pages discussing what a poseur, pig of a car it is 

Nobody is doubting it's a great car. I don't think I or anybody else in this thread has implied otherwise.  But don't you think if it weighed 300, 400 or 600 lbs less it would be and even better car?  I mean even the Mazdaspeed3 which is a bigger car in every dimension weighs 200lbs less.

Even though I'm not a huge fan of BMW, I will admit they are great cars. 

Driving enjoyment is not derived solely from a delicate, lightweight feel.  Having highway stability AND a tossable, fine-handling car with serious power is a very attractive automotive entity, I think.  

What is it that you want from a car that's lightweight?  Excellent braking and handling, correct?  By what we're reading so far, the 135i will deliver this.  It does not HAVE to be Elise-weight to be nimble.

You say, "Nobody is doubting it's a great car. I don't think I or anybody else in this thread has implied otherwise.", but complain ad naseaum about "what a poseur, pig of a car it is."  Tongue-in-cheek or not, I fail to see why we need to dwell on the car's weight if it delivers exceptional performance, feels great doing so and delivers the amenities and features consumers demand of their BMW.  Did I raise an eyebrow or two when I read the curbweight figures?  Sure... but it is what it is and as Mitlov has stated, I fully believe they didn't simply leave 'lead bars in the footwells' for no reason.  The end result is still a car that should prove to be refined, exhilarating and safe.  MX-5 or not, that's appealing to me.  

[safristi]

...M."1".L.F.....

[mmret]

Actually I've seen a comparison of "cheaper" cars like GTI vs STI vs Mazadspeed3 vs BMW 3 series vs Audi S4, etc. in car magazines, like Motortrend, Road and track, car and driver, etc...

While I agree the GTI is a far stretch the MS3 and the STI boast some pretty good numbers.  I think, they can still be compared. 

You found a magazine that did a comparison shootout with a GTI against an S4?  Seriously?  What magazine?  The S4 is twice the price, has twice the cylinders and twice the horsepower, and puts power through twice as many wheels.  I can't imagine how you would compare them.

They're probably running out of things to write.

[Jameel]

You found a magazine that did a comparison shootout with a GTI against an S4?  Seriously?  What magazine?  The S4 is twice the price, has twice the cylinders and twice the horsepower, and puts power through twice as many wheels.  I can't imagine how you would compare them.

Mitlov are you sure you are not thinking of the RS4, which I agree would never be compared to a GTi.  But an Audi A4/S4 might be compared to a GTi or a MS3.  Pretty identical HP figures.

Driving enjoyment is not derived solely from a delicate, lightweight feel.  Having highway stability AND a tossable, fine-handling car with serious power is a very attractive automotive entity, I think. 

What is it that you want from a car that's lightweight?  Excellent braking and handling, correct?  By what we're reading so far, the 135i will deliver this.  It does not HAVE to be Elise-weight to be nimble.

You say, "Nobody is doubting it's a great car. I don't think I or anybody else in this thread has implied otherwise.", but complain ad naseaum about "what a poseur, pig of a car it is."  Tongue-in-cheek or not, I fail to see why we need to dwell on the car's weight if it delivers exceptional performance, feels great doing so and delivers the amenities and features consumers demand of their BMW.  Did I raise an eyebrow or two when I read the curbweight figures?  Sure... but it is what it is and as Mitlov has stated, I fully believe they didn't simply leave 'lead bars in the footwells' for no reason.  The end result is still a car that should prove to be refined, exhilarating and safe.  MX-5 or not, that's appealing to me. 

I never said it was a poseur car I was merely quoting somebody else. Although I do think it will become one, but that's beside the point.
Regarding the weight I was merely surprised at how much it weighed for the size of the car.  When I first read about this car I thought it would be in the 2800 lbs range.  I didn't think it would weigh 3400 lbs.

What do I want from a car that is lightweight, well: braking, handling, acceleration, power-to-weight and great fuel economy (gravy).  Can you honestly tell me that you would prefer this car at 3400+ lbs vs 2800 lbs?

I'm just worried that in the future the masses, that are enthusiasts, will have very little choice in getting a lightweight, nimble, fun car. 

[davidm]

Further proof that the Dwarf and I are separated at birth, I can't wait for the 135 coupe.  When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife and my newfound bum right wrist (hence the auto V40 being mine now).  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car 'cause life sometimes gets in the way of driving purity - am I a poseur now!?!

So, Mini, GTI, 135i, what else would I cross shop?  I'm with GD, I would happily shave $10k and give up a bit of space (and I happen to like the look of the 135 coupe).

Oh, and I owned light Miatas, not the pig GD drives ...  

[Mitlov]

You found a magazine that did a comparison shootout with a GTI against an S4?  Seriously?  What magazine?  The S4 is twice the price, has twice the cylinders and twice the horsepower, and puts power through twice as many wheels.  I can't imagine how you would compare them.

Mitlov are you sure you are not thinking of the RS4, which I agree would never be compared to a GTi.  But an Audi A4/S4 might be compared to a GTi or a MS3.  Pretty identical HP figures.

No.

An Audi S4 has a 4.2L V8 and makes 340 horsepower and puts it to the pavement through a sophisticated full-time all-wheel-drive system.  It starts at US$49,000.  The GTI makes 200 horsepower from a turbocharged 2.0L inline-four and puts it to the pavement through the front wheels.  It starts at US$23,000.  These cars are not comparable.  Full stop.

An Audi A4 2.0T is a different matter, but that's not what you said.  You said S4.

[Mitlov]

Further proof that the Dwarf and I are separated at birth, I can't wait for the 135 coupe.  When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife, my newfound bum right wrist.  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car - am I a poseur now!?!

So, Mini, GTI, 135i, what else would I cross shop?  I'm with GD, I would happily shave $10k and give up a bit of space (and I happen to like the look of the 135 coupe).

Oh, and I owned light Miatas, not the pig GD drives ... 

The new EVO will have a DSG-esque automated manual, and should be priced along with the 135i.  The Mini and GTI are cheaper alternatives, but good options if the 135i is too pricey.  If you're going automatic, DSG owns traditional automatics, so the GTI is a great contender.  I'd also test-drive the Infiniti G37--a quarter-step behind the 335i in performance, at 3/4s the price.

[mdxtasy]

When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife and my newfound bum right wrist (hence the auto V40 being mine now).  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car 'cause life sometimes gets in the way of driving purity - am I a poseur now!?!

So, Mini, GTI, 135i, what else would I cross shop?  I'm with GD, I would happily shave $10k and give up a bit of space (and I happen to like the look of the 135 coupe).

A nicely cared for, pre-owned tiptronic 996. 

[davidm]

Further proof that the Dwarf and I are separated at birth, I can't wait for the 135 coupe.  When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife, my newfound bum right wrist.  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car - am I a poseur now!?!

So, Mini, GTI, 135i, what else would I cross shop?  I'm with GD, I would happily shave $10k and give up a bit of space (and I happen to like the look of the 135 coupe).

Oh, and I owned light Miatas, not the pig GD drives ... 

The new EVO will have a DSG-esque automated manual, and should be priced along with the 135i.  The Mini and GTI are cheaper alternatives, but good options if the 135i is too pricey.  If you're going automatic, DSG owns traditional automatics, so the GTI is a great contender.  I'd also test-drive the Infiniti G37--a quarter-step behind the 335i in performance, at 3/4s the price.

Yes the EVO (sans the wing) did catch my eye.  With the DSG comment you've hit my issue on the head - which to I hate more FWD or auto?  EVO would be perfect (prefer the new STI, but no auto for us arthritics).

[ghost]

Further proof that the Dwarf and I are separated at birth, I can't wait for the 135 coupe.  When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife and my newfound bum right wrist (hence the auto V40 being mine now).  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car 'cause life sometimes gets in the way of driving purity - am I a poseur now!?!

Come on. Admit it, you just want to cruise down Kitsilano and Robson st. with that 135i. 

[davidm]

When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife and my newfound bum right wrist (hence the auto V40 being mine now).  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car 'cause life sometimes gets in the way of driving purity - am I a poseur now!?!

So, Mini, GTI, 135i, what else would I cross shop?  I'm with GD, I would happily shave $10k and give up a bit of space (and I happen to like the look of the 135 coupe).

A nicely cared for, pre-owned tiptronic 996. 

I would love a 911 (not particularly a 996 fan), but have this moral/ethical question - is a 911 auto/tip okay or should it just not be owned?  

[mdxtasy]

I would love a 911 (not particularly a 996 fan), but have this moral/ethical question - is a 911 auto/tip okay or should it just not be owned?  

For the old and arthritic, the tiptronic is a great choice.  The last PCA cruise I attended, I met an older guy who moved out of his 964 and into a tip 996 (from the US).  Beautiful car, he's owned 6 prior 911's and this was his first tiptronic.  Loves it. 

996's are bargains.  Great handling car with a questionable front end. 

[davidm]

Further proof that the Dwarf and I are separated at birth, I can't wait for the 135 coupe.  When I can get far enough along in the house debt I NEED to replace the V40 with something fun.  I need a car that doubles as a commuter and a sports car (might hit the track once a year), can be driven by my wife if I have the kid for the day, and can seat 4 in a real pinch (ie. 2+2).  Oh, and it has to be an auto for 2 reasons - my wife and my newfound bum right wrist (hence the auto V40 being mine now).  I can drive manual, heel-toe, all that good stuff, but I will need an auto sports car 'cause life sometimes gets in the way of driving purity - am I a poseur now!?!

Come on. Admit it, you just want to cruise down Kitsilano and Robson st. with that 135i. 

Is there something wrong with that?      Vancouver is nothing if not about enjoying the "view".