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Mitlov
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2007, 01:26:33 pm » |
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I like this quote, "Much of that driving purity comes from the 1 Series' light weight and tight dimensions". Since when is 1560 kg (3432 lbs) light weight?
I remember years ago I had a a 1995 Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo which weighed 3550 lbs and that was considered a heavy pig (and the TT Stealth had AWD). And now they are calling a 3400 lb, RWD car lightweight?
Wow, how things have changed. I guess people are just getting more and more use to heavy cars so 3400 lbs seems relatively light.
Of course "light weight" means relative to the competition nowadays. What else would it be a comparison to? Sure, cars were a lot lighter many decades ago, but they were also a lot slower and had frames that flexed as much as modern suspension. It's an apples and oranges comparison. I mean, the Model T had a curb weight of 1650 lbs, but that doesn't mean that the Lotus Elise is a pig because it weighs 20% more.
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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Arthur Dent
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2007, 02:15:22 pm » |
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But the biggest issue is that its not all that much lighter than the 3-series. I think they share a platform so that isn't too surprising. But it is disappointing - so rather than building true 2002 successor they've built an uglier, sawed off 3-series. Oh and priced very close.  |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 02:51:08 pm by Arthur Dent »
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UmroAyyar
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2007, 02:42:57 pm » |
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Very interesting car. I'd be very interested if I was single.  On the weight issue, its heavier than my car, my car weighs 1,500kg (3,307lbs) according Toyota Canada's website. Was this ever destined to be a lightweight car? never seemed like it. EDIT: corrected the units, was paying too much attention to work.  |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 02:59:58 pm by UmroAyyar »
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(Corolla Upgraded --> (Camry Sold | (Intrepid Taken Out))) --> 1999 Mazda 626 LX 2.5V6
"since the masses are always eager to believe something, for their benefit nothing is so easy to arrange as facts."
ˇʇnɥs ɥʇnoɯ ɹnoʎ dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝɔuɐɥɔ ɐ ssıɯ ɹǝʌǝu
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jcon
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2007, 02:48:46 pm » |
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Very interesting car. I'd be very interested if I was single. On the weight issue, its heavier than my car, my car weighs 1,500lbs (3,307kg) according Toyota Canada's website. Was this ever destined to be a lightweight car? never seemed like it. I think you've mixed those up, or is it that around the Centre of The Universe, polarities are reversed and 1500lbs is equal to 3307kg??? |
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Snowman
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2007, 02:55:12 pm » |
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Gee, the 2006 WRX wagon is 3200 lbs and considered on the heavy side for a compact car. |
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UmroAyyar
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2007, 02:59:24 pm » |
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Very interesting car. I'd be very interested if I was single. On the weight issue, its heavier than my car, my car weighs 1,500lbs (3,307kg) according Toyota Canada's website. Was this ever destined to be a lightweight car? never seemed like it. I think you've mixed those up, or is it that around the Centre of The Universe, polarities are reversed and 1500lbs is equal to 3307kg??? I have an eye exam appointment tomorrow. |
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(Corolla Upgraded --> (Camry Sold | (Intrepid Taken Out))) --> 1999 Mazda 626 LX 2.5V6
"since the masses are always eager to believe something, for their benefit nothing is so easy to arrange as facts."
ˇʇnɥs ɥʇnoɯ ɹnoʎ dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝɔuɐɥɔ ɐ ssıɯ ɹǝʌǝu
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mdxtasy
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2007, 03:45:00 pm » |
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But the biggest issue is that its not all that much lighter than the 3-series. I think they share a platform so that isn't too surprising. But it is disappointing - so rather than building true 2002 successor they've built an uglier, sawed off 3-series. Oh and priced very close. Bingo.  |
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Mitlov
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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2007, 05:39:14 pm » |
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But the biggest issue is that its not all that much lighter than the 3-series. I think they share a platform so that isn't too surprising. But it is disappointing - so rather than building true 2002 successor they've built an uglier, sawed off 3-series. Oh and priced very close. The 135i coupe is 3373 lbs (with manual transmission). http://content.bmwusa.com/microsite/1series2008/assets/pdf/2008_1series_coupe_catalogue.pdfThe 335i coupe is 3571 lbs (with manual transmission). http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/335icoupe/techdata.htmThe 650i coupe is 3814 lbs (with manual transmission). http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/6/650iCoupe/techdata.htmThe 135i and the 335i coupes are 198 lbs apart; the 335i and the 650i coupes are 243 lbs apart. I think a 200 lb difference is just fine, especially considering that less than 250 lbs separate the 335i coupe and the monstrous, V8 650i coupe. |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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Sir Osis of Liver
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2007, 05:51:00 pm » |
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Just for weight comparison, the Mustang GT weights in at 3483lbs, and it's certainly not a small car (LxWxH 188.0 × 73.9 × 55.4). And yes it does have a very rigid body. |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:52:44 pm by Big_Thumb »
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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. –
Carl Sagan
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mmret
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« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2007, 05:54:19 pm » |
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Whatever I do, I just can't help but see this as a very niche car.
Wealthy boy racers or old guys looking to live again would buy it, everyone else either won't be willing to pay up for it or will need more space, end up buying a real 335 (or G37, and save some bucks). |
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Have: 06 TSX, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK
Had: 01 GrandAm, 07 Civic
Dream: SLS AMG
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ghost
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« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2007, 06:47:23 pm » |
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It looks horrendously pudgy in a bulldog kinda style. I've seen the hatch versions in Europe. They look cute like a 5dr Golf. For a little more I can get a proper BMW - 335i. Or if I am really into sport driving, get a CPO Z4M Coupe. We are so de-sensitize with car weight these days. 3400lbs... light? compared to what the USS Nimitz? As someone once said, you can bully physics but you can never overcome it. |
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Jameel
Auto Obsessed
 OfflineVehicle: 2008 Mercedes-Benz C300
Gender: 
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 756
 
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2007, 07:31:33 pm » |
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I like this quote, "Much of that driving purity comes from the 1 Series' light weight and tight dimensions". Since when is 1560 kg (3432 lbs) light weight?
I remember years ago I had a a 1995 Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo which weighed 3550 lbs and that was considered a heavy pig (and the TT Stealth had AWD). And now they are calling a 3400 lb, RWD car lightweight?
Wow, how things have changed. I guess people are just getting more and more use to heavy cars so 3400 lbs seems relatively light.
Of course "light weight" means relative to the competition nowadays. What else would it be a comparison to? Sure, cars were a lot lighter many decades ago, but they were also a lot slower and had frames that flexed as much as modern suspension. It's an apples and oranges comparison. I mean, the Model T had a curb weight of 1650 lbs, but that doesn't mean that the Lotus Elise is a pig because it weighs 20% more. I never implied cars where slower or faster now. I never said a car that is over 100 years old is better than a car a modern car because the modern car is 20% heavier. I was merely pointing out a 12 year old car that is a lot bigger (L179.7in x W72.4in x H49in) compared to this compact car (L171in x W68.8in X H55.7in) weighs almost the same. And that Stealth TT had AWD. I could see the Mini Cooper (~2550lbs), the Boxster (~2860 lbs) or Cayman (2800 lbs) are considered lightweight, nimble cars. But something that weighs ~3500 lbs. How is that light? I guess when you compare it to all the SUVs that people drive these days, yah it's a light car. |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 07:44:18 pm by Jameel »
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initial_D
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2007, 07:37:45 pm » |
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I like it.  RWD, 2 door, has a backseat, great handling, awesome engine and braking. I would get one if I am in the market for a sports coupe, assuming I can afford payments. |
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Snowman
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2007, 08:00:08 pm » |
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The majority of these cars will be slushboxes bought by people who only see the badge. Weight, handling, and performance will only be important to the minority who have to scrape up the extra bucks because the poseurs are willing to full pop for one. |
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Mitlov
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2007, 08:03:56 pm » |
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The majority of these cars will be slushboxes bought by people who only see the badge. Weight, handling, and performance will only be important to the minority who have to scrape up the extra bucks because the poseurs are willing to full pop for one.
...as opposed to what? Do WRXs never attract poseurs or idiots? |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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Snowman
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2007, 08:27:40 pm » |
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The majority of these cars will be slushboxes bought by people who only see the badge. Weight, handling, and performance will only be important to the minority who have to scrape up the extra bucks because the poseurs are willing to full pop for one.
...as opposed to what? Do WRXs never attract poseurs or idiots? Yes they do. But only being available wit an MT weeds a lot of them out. Edit: I stand corrected slushboxes available in 2007 . The end is near.  |
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« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 08:30:42 pm by Snowman »
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tpl
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2007, 08:38:10 pm » |
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If we are lucky Snowman, the Rapture will take all the people who want automatic trans in performance cars ( and Fantino) This will leave the roads empty for those of us who are left. |
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It is a narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.
Lord Palmerston
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Snowman
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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2007, 08:42:44 pm » |
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If we are lucky Snowman, the Rapture will take all the people who want automatic trans in performance cars ( and Fantino) This will leave the roads empty for those of us who are left.
I indulge every day….but I won’t be posting about it anymore as Fantino’s goose steeping storm troopers are probably reading this right now. |
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Mitlov
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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2007, 08:44:18 pm » |
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...as opposed to what? Do WRXs never attract poseurs or idiots?
Yes they do. But only being available wit an MT weeds a lot of them out. Edit: I stand corrected slushboxes available in 2007 . The end is near.  The WRX has had an available automatic since its North American introduction. Was it manual-only in Canada? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Impreza_WRX#United_States-spec |
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"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.
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jcon
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« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2007, 08:44:42 pm » |
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If we are lucky Snowman, the Rapture will take all the people who want automatic trans in performance cars ( and Fantino) This will leave the roads empty for those of us who are left.
I indulge every day….but I won’t be posting about it anymore as Fantino’s goose steeping storm troopers are probably reading this right now. We know were you live, we know what you drive, and we know about the 'back roads' you take to work!  |
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