CD Article: 2008 Mercedes-Benz C300

[Julie]

Mercedes-Benz C300 (3.0L V6):  228 hp @ 6000 rpm; 221 lb-ft @ 2700 – 5000 rpm

BMW 328i (3.0L inline-six):  230 hp @ 6500 rpm; 200 lb-ft @ 2750 rpm

The output of the Mercedes engine seems just fine to me.  I'd gladly lose two horsepower to gain 21 ft-lbs.

But for the power-hungry, the Infiniti G35, for the same price as the C300 and 328i, offers 306 hp @ 6800 rpm
and 268 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm.

When a peak torque is described at a higher rpm, does that mean that you generally have to rev higher to get maximum torque in that particular car?

Does it have anything to do with the range or "band" or high torque?

[mmret]

Mercedes-Benz C300 (3.0L V6):  228 hp @ 6000 rpm; 221 lb-ft @ 2700 – 5000 rpm

BMW 328i (3.0L inline-six):  230 hp @ 6500 rpm; 200 lb-ft @ 2750 rpm

The output of the Mercedes engine seems just fine to me.  I'd gladly lose two horsepower to gain 21 ft-lbs.

But for the power-hungry, the Infiniti G35, for the same price as the C300 and 328i, offers 306 hp @ 6800 rpm
and 268 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm.

When a peak torque is described at a higher rpm, does that mean that you generally have to rev higher to get maximum torque in that particular car?

Does it have anything to do with the range or "band" or high torque?

The peak torque is just like you said, the maximum torque. Yes, if it is at a higher RPM you need to crank higher to get peak torque output.

Torque band just refers to an RPM range where the amount of torque developed is "close to maximum," something like 85 or 90%. Peak torque occurs within this RPM range, usually.

I say usually because you usually have many localized peaks within the torque curve. Observe below the dyno of a 06 manual TSX. Note the purple line (stock) has a huge dropoff in torque between 5k and 6k, and then a final peak around 6300 or so. Personally I would characterize the torque band as being between 2800 and 5000, but of course the torque output at 6300 is very, very close to the overall maximum.

Engines typically start off with crummy torque, build up around 2k, and then run out of steam at various points depending on sophistication. Here, the TSX dies at 5k, then VTEC kicks in, changing things up and bringing a second rise and fall in torque output.

**The Hondata reflash modifies the VTEC crossover point so the transition is smoother and you don't get a drop in power output at 5k. Silly Honda, the thing feels gutless until you get a small kick in the pants at 6k.

You may also notice when driving that the car has quite a kick around 3k, which is supported by the torque curve.

You should get a Hondata reflash.

[wing]

That's quite the drop!

[mmret]

Yes, it is. I would get a reflash but you have to mail your ECU to some place in the US and you're without a car for a few days. Plus the inherent risk of something blowing up in shipping. I wonder what Camco would say if I went in and asked for a new ECU.

[wing]

They will say, that will be $1000 thank you.

Get a HondaData ECU problem solved.  Still pricey.

[Julie]

mmret, thanks for all that info!

And I understood everything, yea! (so thanks for the really well written info  )

[wing]

I know someone that did that with their 350z took a few days no problems.

If I could get a Hondadata flash for the S2k I would but for me I have to get an RSX ECU get it flashed, get new cams etc etc.  for about 30 hp it's $8000

[Julie]

If I could get a Hondadata flash for the S2k ....for about 30 hp it's $8000

   Hey wing, how was the torque band for the Mercedes like? Long? Starts early?

[mmret]

If I declare $1k FedEX insurance, I get chraged duties right?

Julie: no probs

[tpl]

If I declare $1k FedEX insurance, I get charged duties right?

Julie: no probs

If you send your own ECU then it is being sent to "be repaired" and there is no duty.....IF the people in the states play along.
Legally they should do the invoice for the cost ( to you) or the reflash/new chip whatever. Presumably its a surface mounted chip like Audis and VWs... dont you have those facilities available in some skunk works lab at work so you could just get a new chip ?

[mmret]

Never tried to lift an FPGA from anything but a proper socket. I imagine you could do it, and I'm sure the equipment is there, somewhere, but as far as actually doing it? Ehh..

Would be nice if they would send me the compiled image so I could just reprogram it myself.

[wing]

Julie the C300 had it's power down low you could cruise around without revving it out and it felt great.

[sittinaround]

I saw a couple of new C Class Mercedes in Mexico City last week.  The first one looked great - much like a compact S Class.  The second car was some innocuous colour and it looked at first to be a Mazda 6.  This is one of those cars that colour will make all the difference.  In any case I'll try to hold onto my 190E: way underpowered but still a keeper.

[sailor723]

I checked the MB USA site for pricing and found that unlike many manufacturers MB doesn't seem to feel the need to ding Canadians an extra 20-25% for the privilege on buying one of their cars in Canada. ....Another point in their favour!

[Snowman]

Yes, it is. I would get a reflash but you have to mail your ECU to some place in the US and you're without a car for a few days. Plus the inherent risk of something blowing up in shipping. I wonder what Camco would say if I went in and asked for a new ECU.

Neetronics in Mississauga tunes Hondata. Paul is the best tuner in Canada and I will only let him touch my car.
http://www.neetronics.com/neet/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

[wing]

Tap auto in Ottawa tunes Hondata as well.

[mmret]

Do they do it on site? I thought all Hondata tunes had to be shipped to the headquarters place.

If they can do it on site in an hour or so, then I'm definitely goign to get it done.

[wing]

I am not sure.  Look for Tap Auto in the phone book and give him a call and ask.  I doubt it would be an hour, it would include dyno time and tune. 

[Snowman]

Be prepared to pay $200/hr for dyno time and it will be 2-3 hours. I would drive to Toronto if you want it done right.

[Julie]

If you do it, lemme know how it goes mmret.