Discuss: Feature - Canadian vs U.S. vehicle prices: are we paying too much?

[airbalancer]

I’m going to start buying shares of Kimberly-Clark.

 

I can not wait until the Iphone comes out( I read it will be on Roger) it will be $499 on a 3 year contact
and in the US it is $299
Let the bitching start

[tpl]

While we are on dumb ideas how about this:

Persuade our federal gov to pass a law that says:  If a manufacturer sells a vehicle in Canada for more than the us price +/-5% they will be immediately fined the difference.  Including freight in that of course.


I claim the dumb idea prize in this thread.  ( which is probably a 10 year old  2nd hand cavalier  from a rust belt state)

[jcon]

I can not wait until the Iphone comes out( I read it will be on Roger) it will be $499 on a 3 year contact
and in the US it is $299
Let the bitching start

BIG difference... Mobile service providers subsidize the purchase price of mobile phones. So the price you see is only a piece of the actual cost.

And Rogers is the only network that can carry the iPhone. Telus, Bell, etc. don't have the network to do it.

[tpl]

pp

I’m going to start buying shares of Kimberly-Clark.

 

I can not wait until the Iphone comes out( I read it will be on Roger) it will be $499 on a 3 year contact
and in the US it is $299
Let the bitching start

Not so much the Iphone device price but the network costs from Rogers over the three years.   I'd bet that we are not getting the Iphone because Rogers refuses to drop their network access prices to US levels and Apple quite rightly IMHO  refuses to do a deal unless unlimited internet and data is down to $30/month or so.

[Zombie]

I already know two people that have Iphones. They use Fido. They got the phone from the US and used a tool to crack the SW so they could unlock it to any network. Then slap in a sim card and your ready to rock.

[jcon]

I already know two people that have Iphones. They use Fido. They got the phone from the US and used a tool to crack the SW so they could unlock it to any network. Then slap in a sim card and your ready to rock.

Fido = Rogers

Same network.

[Zombie]

Fido = Rogers

Same network.

Yup know that also ... so what!!

[safristi]

  DOWN BOY....Play Dead ...and ROLL OVER ta the Highest Cell rates in tha WORLD here in Kanucistan?

[2latecrew]

[So I would urge anyone that was considering buying a new Honda to put that purchase off, for a week, or a month, or until Honda Canada comes up with a reasonable reason for their outrageous price differences and starts to treat Canadian consumers with a little more respect.
Perhaps if we can put the squeeze on Honda, the other car retailers will get the hint and we can make a difference.
This is not like trying to put the squeeze on the oil companies, which never seemed to take off. But this is you spending literally tens of thousands of dollars more in one single purchase! That is a very big chunk of change to part with just for the privilege of buying a car from Honda Canada!
Write Honda Canada and tell them you will not be buying their product until they do something about this issue./quote]

What a great idea..put off your purchase of a Honda until they lower prices!

How long do you suggest people might have to wait for the 5 people on this board who are currently planning to buy a Honda putting off their purchase to take effect?

How about NEVER.

"Dear Honda Canada,

You are ripping us off by charging way more in Canada and not letting us buy in the US. I was going to buy an Accord but will now put it off until you reduce prices to close to US levels.

sincerely Mr Consumer"

Dear Mr Consumer,

Too bad you will put off buying an Accord until we lower our prices to US levels. We don't really care because there are 1000s of other consumers in Canada who do want an Accord and will buy one at Canadian prices. So you can either keep driving your 12 year junkheap or go buy another competing brand like Toyota (which also charges more in Canada and won't let you buy in the US). Either way there are still a lot of people in Canada who want an Accord and not another brand of car and our inventory will continue to flow and we will continue to make lots of $.

Sincerely Honda Canada

[Canadian Sucker]

Yes Honda will tell the 5 people to shut up and quit whining, but 100 people, 1000 people, of course Canadians are suckers and we will just whine and buy and continue to whine.

[ErikRP]

It is really quite frustrating.  We're in the market to replace our leased Buick.  Thankfully it's not quite at its lease end yet, but just for grins we stopped by the dealer the other day.  Just about walked out with a new Allure but the colours weren't what we wanted.

Bit of back and forth later, we think we have the ideal car nailed down only to find out it's not available.  So we decide to order one to our specs.  I went to check prices today and holy crap if the lease prices haven't jumped by almost $150 (to around $720!!!) overnight.  No difference whatsoever in the sticker price, but now instead of a $10K+ "residual value" (Guaranteed Option to Purchase Price) it's one more lease payment.  This is for any of GM's cars that I could see - so the lease payments pay for the vehicle in total. 

To make matters worse, just south of the border, not 2 hours away, is a dealer quoting the same vehicle for $300 and change.  Taxes on top of that I'm sure, but that would still be likely well under $500.  Unfortunately I'm not in a position to buy in the States - pretty much need to lease which is hard to do cross-border, if not impossible.

So I feel double-screwed today - prices in the U.S. are lower than the "low" prices on the vehicle I want, and now even the "low" Canadian price is jacked up sky-high.  I could almost lease TWO vehicles in the U.S. for the price I'm being given online at GM's Canadian site.  How nuts is that?

HELLO GM CANADA?!  $1CAD = $1.055US AT THE MOMENT!   

My only hope is that the prices on the website are totally whacked and are in the process of being updated for a nice drop to correspond to Chrysler's announced drop today.

[safristi]

WING...can we HOT_WIRE these comments to tha KAR KOMPANIES "consumer relations honchos!!???"............

[2latecrew]

Yes Honda will tell the 5 people to shut up and quit whining, but 100 people, 1000 people, of course Canadians are suckers and we will just whine and buy and continue to whine.

Yes they will tell 100 people to shut up. They will tell 1000 people to shut up.

The idea of "holding back" on buying any manufacturers car to force anything is frankly reaching the level of stupidity.

I have yet to see any even remotely reasonable explanation of how it could be properly accomplished.

In order to effect change they would have to see a substantial decrease in their overall sales . not a DELAY in sales. A substantial decrease in say 6 month sales numbers year to year.  How many people need to buy a car and want a Honda can simply put of buying for more than 6 months. If what they say is true and such a high % of Canadians lease what do all the people who's lease is up over the next 6 months who want to buy a Honda do? WALK? Take the BUS?

Do you decrease Hinda's sales by buying Toyota's instead? You have to buy them in Canada at the same high prices. So you are encouraging Toyota . So if you could accomplish this (which you can't) maybe Honda says fine. I'll drop all prices by $100 to help "bridge" the price gap. Now Honda is doing "something" and Toyota "nothing" so should all Toyota buyers flock to Honda because they are cutting prices closer to US and Toyota is not.

Its just stupid.

Canadians aren't "sheep" they are victims of the market. If you can walk into a US dealer and buy the same car for a lot less and don't (and you can do it financially) then yes there is a case that you should put your money where your mouth is. But if you want a Honda you either buy it in Canada or go buy some other car. Delaying your purchase for a day a month or 6 months makes no difference. Most people cannot delay car purchases for months at a time. You need to buy something.

[Cord]

I went to check prices today and holy crap if the lease prices haven't jumped by almost $150 (to around $720!!!) overnight.  No difference whatsoever in the sticker price, but now instead of a $10K+ "residual value" (Guaranteed Option to Purchase Price) it's one more lease payment.  This is for any of GM's cars that I could see - so the lease payments pay for the vehicle in total.

That makes no sense as written. Perhaps you could clarify.

[ErikRP]

I went to check prices today and holy crap if the lease prices haven't jumped by almost $150 (to around $720!!!) overnight.  No difference whatsoever in the sticker price, but now instead of a $10K+ "residual value" (Guaranteed Option to Purchase Price) it's one more lease payment.  This is for any of GM's cars that I could see - so the lease payments pay for the vehicle in total.

That makes no sense as written. Perhaps you could clarify.

Sorry - perhaps I misstated something.  The monthly lease price I was quoted earlier this week was around $565 (including taxes).  This was for a $36,585 Buick Allure.  On the website when I looked it showed something like $13,000 as the "Guaranteed Option to Purchase Price", which is the residual or buy-out price.

I checked the GM Canada website today and for the same car the monthly lease price (for 48 months, $0 down, low mileage) is $794 (not sure if this is before or after taxes).  Under "Guaranteed Option to Purchase Price" it shows $732 - i.e. I pay that last payment, keep the car and don't owe a thing more to GM/GMAC.

I can't say I'm all that knowledgeable about all of the ins and outs of leasing/finance/the automotive industry, but to see a jump of $230+ overnight seems a bit dramatic.  So again, either GM's site is screwed up or... I almost said I missed out on a great deal, but there again, in the U.S. this same car is leasing in the $300 range.

Am I just losing it or what???

[Cord]

Relax. You aren't losing it. That's just a problem with their calculator. 

I'd be very surprised if Allure payments were $2 higher let alone $200 higher.

[ErikRP]

Relax. You aren't losing it. That's just a problem with their calculator. 

I'd be very surprised if Allure payments were $2 higher let alone $200 higher.

Right you are - it looks like GM's site is in the midst of a minor upgrade.  Whew!   

But I still get annoyed when I look at the U.S. prices.  And to make matters worse, why are the options on the vehicle so much higher?!  I was looking at the Lucerne's DVD navigation system.  To add it in Canada costs $3155.  The price in the U.S. is $1945 - almost 40% less!!

I hate waiting for a new vehicle but I think I might have to do just that and see if GM finally gets the message that it has to lower its prices.  And I'm not just talking about a few dollars lower, or getting a set of floor mats thrown in for free.  When I can get a well-equipped Lucerne in the U.S. for $5,000 less than a lower-end Allure in Canada something is TERRIBLY wrong.

[tpl]

An interesting article in todays National Pest Driving section about pricing. Here is part of it
"
...
According to OANDA.com's FX History, on Oct. 22, 2002, the euro/loonie exchange rate was exactly 0.65680. Almost five years later, that exchange rate stood at an all-but-identical 0.65660 (only in the last few months has the Canadian dollar risen against the euro). My rudimentary understanding of those numbers tells me that BMW Canada, for instance, paid relatively the same (adjusted, of course, for inflation) for a 7 Series in 2002 as it did this year. Ditto for Mercedes and its S-Class and Audi's A8, both of which are tens of thousands of dollars cheaper in the U.S.

During the same period, the U.S. dollar has dropped precipitously against the same European currency. The greenback that used to buy more than an entire euro now brings in less than ¤.70. At those exchange rates, an Audi A8 sold in the U.S. (currently US$70,690) would have generated approximately ¤72,600 in 2002 but only ¤49,130 last week. By comparison, the same car sold in Toronto (C$97,190) would have meant ¤63,700 in Audi AG's coffers in 2002, the same ¤63,700 earlier this year and ¤70,200 today. I did the calculation against the British pound and found much the same thing.
...
"

The suggestion is that the European ( aka luxury !) manufacturers may be making very close to zero profit on cars sold in the USA  and thats why they don't want Canadians to buy their BMWs and M-Bs in America.  This would hold for Volvo and VW ( for German built cars) as well.

Obviously this does not apply to the Big 3  although I wonder about the Korean currency wrt the US$ for GM's captive imports... or is the Won tied to the US$. 

[Rexx]

About the lower residual value of the Buick Enclave. The manufacturers are using the argument for the status quo that lowering MSRP's will affect the residual value of outstanding leases and that they will be left holding the bag. So be it, the loonie didn't reach parity (and beyond) overnight and the manufacturers have had lots of time to adjust prices in Canada, which they never did. You should expect to see lower residuals if you expect lower MSRP's. While the latter has yet to happen I think it will.

[tpl]

Its the residuals of cars leased 1,2,3 years ago that are a big problem as they cannot be recomputed.   If the financial guys who compute residuals on leases done today choose to believe the loonie will stay at  around $1us and are told by their management that car prices in Canada will trend down to near US levels then they could easily redo the leases.  Which would still displease  the  leasing companies as no-one would buy out a leased vehicle from a current lease but would walk away ahead of time, pay the penalty and release on the new terms.