Discuss: Feature - Canadian vs U.S. vehicle prices: are we paying too much?

[2latecrew]

This topic is clearly starting to have an impact at car dealerships... but in true stealership fashion, not in the expected way.

I'm currently in the market for a fully loaded minivan.  I want it all, power doors/lift gate, DVD, leather, etc...  Went into Honda yesterday, the Odyssey Touring starts at $48,100, a full $10k over US prices.  I mention this to the sales guy and he has his Honda speaking points sheet in front of him and spouts off the lines.  Smaller market (so what when the border is 100km away), not the same options (hmm, from what I can tell, the only difference is the mpg vs kph display, at most a $300 fix), Honda won't honour US warranty (not true, I asked the service department, they have no choice but too, they want the business)... etc, etc, I had a counter for all his points.  I even pointed out the bloody van is made in Ontario and the PDI is $1500 in Canada but only $595 in the US??? Finally, I told him to meet me 3/4 of the way and knock off $7k.  Left him my business card.

This morning, I have a message, $4k discount.  I call him back, keep trying, I'm on the phone to New York dealership negotiating with them, dealer even has, in stock, kph display kit to make the conversion.  Wants my business.  Wonder what the local dealer will come back with.  I suspect they'll tell me to suck eggs as they only have 5 left in stock and there are still sheep out there willing to pay full price.

Looks like a road trip to the US is in my very near future.

JB

Its interesting that they give the salesmen the BS talking points.I don't know why they even try to overcome that objection? The dealership/salesperson cannot match US prices. They have to buy the Car from Honda Canada at the Canadian price. They can't buy it from Honda US . So if I was a dealer I'd say I can't match US prices..if you want a US car go to the US and buy it. Now if you want to negotiate a price on a Canadian van vs a Canadian van lets go but really I'm going to call (most people's) bluff.

you may not be bluffing. You may have 40K to punk down and can/will actually go across the boarder and do it. But the majority of people will not. they will buy in Canada and I wouldn't negotiate against some theoretical price especially when I can't match it at a profit.

I do applaud the people who go to the trouble of seeing the Canadian dealer knowing full well that they will buy in the US. It would be even better if you return to the dealer after you buy for service and stop and chat with the manager.

Hey Mr. Dealer I'm using your service but I saved 7 K buying in the US. I know its not your fault feel free to use me as an example in your next dealer meeting.

It will probably only end up accelerating Honda's plans to charge back US dealers who sell to Canadians rather than see any drop in price but its worth a try.

[JBrill]

This topic is clearly starting to have an impact at car dealerships... but in true stealership fashion, not in the expected way.

I'm currently in the market for a fully loaded minivan.  I want it all, power doors/lift gate, DVD, leather, etc...  Went into Honda yesterday, the Odyssey Touring starts at $48,100, a full $10k over US prices.  I mention this to the sales guy and he has his Honda speaking points sheet in front of him and spouts off the lines.  Smaller market (so what when the border is 100km away), not the same options (hmm, from what I can tell, the only difference is the mpg vs kph display, at most a $300 fix), Honda won't honour US warranty (not true, I asked the service department, they have no choice but too, they want the business)... etc, etc, I had a counter for all his points.  I even pointed out the bloody van is made in Ontario and the PDI is $1500 in Canada but only $595 in the US??? Finally, I told him to meet me 3/4 of the way and knock off $7k.  Left him my business card.

This morning, I have a message, $4k discount.  I call him back, keep trying, I'm on the phone to New York dealership negotiating with them, dealer even has, in stock, kph display kit to make the conversion.  Wants my business.  Wonder what the local dealer will come back with.  I suspect they'll tell me to suck eggs as they only have 5 left in stock and there are still sheep out there willing to pay full price.

Looks like a road trip to the US is in my very near future.

JB

Its interesting that they give the salesmen the BS talking points.I don't know why they even try to overcome that objection? The dealership/salesperson cannot match US prices. They have to buy the Car from Honda Canada at the Canadian price. They can't buy it from Honda US . So if I was a dealer I'd say I can't match US prices..if you want a US car go to the US and buy it. Now if you want to negotiate a price on a Canadian van vs a Canadian van lets go but really I'm going to call (most people's) bluff.

you may not be bluffing. You may have 40K to punk down and can/will actually go across the boarder and do it. But the majority of people will not. they will buy in Canada and I wouldn't negotiate against some theoretical price especially when I can't match it at a profit.

I do applaud the people who go to the trouble of seeing the Canadian dealer knowing full well that they will buy in the US. It would be even better if you return to the dealer after you buy for service and stop and chat with the manager.

Hey Mr. Dealer I'm using your service but I saved 7 K buying in the US. I know its not your fault feel free to use me as an example in your next dealer meeting.

It will probably only end up accelerating Honda's plans to charge back US dealers who sell to Canadians rather than see any drop in price but its worth a try.

Considering how easy it appears to be to import, the recent rise in the CDN $ and the proximity of the US border, the bluff is probably more real today that it was 6 months ago.

None the less, the real issue is that they will probably be able to sell the remainder of their stock at the price they want and not get stuck with inventory any ways.

However, if and when I do get a van in the US, I fully plan on dropping into the dealership to show it off along with the final invoice.  Then they'll smile and point to their board and show me that they are sold-out anyways.

JB

[Rolling]

Good work though JBrill, at least someone is doing something about it!    I did the same with my MR2, went to the dealer, showed them the massive discount I could get from importing my own (UK spec, made in the same factory as the cars from Holland) they quoted me the UK price, I said I'm not giving them money for charity, walked out and imported my own.

It's actions not words that will change the manufacturer's attitudes. Hopefully people talking about it on here will give others the confidence to import their own, it's not difficult, especially if they will honour the warranty.
[/quote]

This is great info, and I’m not whining…I know where I’m buying my next new vehicle.

What would be great to see is some really useful information from those who have already successfully imported a new vehicle from the U.S. and can itemize the procedures they did step by step.

If we can get links to websites that have the procedures in place, and maybe pictures of the actual documents that need to be filled out that would be great.

As a constructive idea maybe we can pool all the knowledge that people know already about importing new vehicles into Canada and post it.

It would be awesome if such a site can be made that has up to date information on:
-   U.S. Dealers that will sell to Canadians
-   What to expect when dealing with the US dealer
-   Manufactures that will honor warranties in Canada on U.S. bought cars
-   Canadian financial institutions that will give car loans to people who intend to buy in the U.S.
-   Boarder Preparations, and all necessary forms that need to be ready for a swift and easy crossing
-   Post crossing procedures/inspections etc.

If a site already exists please speak out. If such a site were to be made that gave the Canadian consumer the choice on how and where to buy their next new vehicle. I would use it, and probably a lot of other people too.

[84im]

This thread is about Canadian vs US vehicle prices, but if you've researched automotive aftermarket parts lately you'll notice that there is still a large price difference between Canadian & US products.  Case-in-point:  My monster was in need of a new brake vacuum booster.  I searched in Canada and could only find a remanufactured booster for $320 Can.  That seemed WAY too high, so I searched the internet for a better price.  I finally purchased a new booster from a North Carolina Mazda dealer for $183 US.  Shipping to Washington State was a whopping $5.00.  So, with the exchange rate, shipping and duty I paid approximately $205 Can for a new brake booster, compared to $320 for a remanufactured one.  Add on GST/PST and I ended up with a savings of $130 Can.
Canadians can let the dealers and companies know they're unhappy with the difference in prices by buying from the US.  I'm getting to the point where I don't even compare Canadian/US prices anymore....I just order from the US.

[Cord]

However, if and when I do get a van in the US, I fully plan on dropping into the dealership to show it off along with the final invoice.

There's no sense in rubbing the dealer's nose in it - they know prices in the U.S. are cheaper but they can't do anything about it anyway. Send a letter to Honda Canada if you are interested in complaining to somebody that can actually do something.

[Accordingly]

Some supposedly contradictory information from Dennis DesRosiers.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/18/cars-crossborder.html

I don't think he is saying anything new here, since it is reasonably well understood that larger and lux. brands represent the biggest incentive to shopping in the US.

[sailor723]

Don't know if you consider it "Large and Lux" but we did a deal on a base model Subaru Tribeca (08) yesterday. it's hard to know what the exact savings are without working to get the best deal from a Canadian dealer but it looks like around 14K after tax.

[Accordingly]

Nice going...enjoy it! Post some details about your experiences as well as the obligatory pics, when available.

[jww]

I saw this story posted on Yahoo just a few minutes ago - interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20070926/ca_pr_on_na/autos_class_action

Could make for an interesting case to follow.

[carcrazy]

The article mentions that the action is directed against "GM divisions". What about the other big offenders - Honda, Toyota, VW?

[Zombie]

The article mentions that the action is directed against "GM divisions". What about the other big offenders - Honda, Toyota, VW?

Its not just GM that article is just missing the rest of the list.
http://www6.autonet.ca/News/story.cfm?story=/News/2007/09/26/4527976-cp.html

has this :
Named in the lawsuit are the Canadian and U.S. divisions of General Motors (NYSE:GM), Honda, Nissan and Chrysler (NYSE:DCX).

[Turbo Bob]

Why in North America does everyone just sue everyone else, what ever happened to consumer power, vote with your feet FFS!

[dave 2]

Car buying is probably the easiest purchase to put off (unless you're leasing or have a sudden change in family situation or whatnot).

I'm probably going to wait and see if all this ruckus is gonna change anything. I figure they have to start moving downwards for 2008 at least.  Porsche are knocking off 10% on 08 models in response to this so others may not be far behind.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?tf=/ctv/mar/video/new_player.html&cf=ctv/mar/ctv.cfg&hub=Consumer&video_link_high=mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2007/09/25/ctvvideologger3_190719502_1190759750_500kbps.wmv&video_link_low=mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2007/09/25/ctvvideologger3_190719501_1190758377_218kbps.wmv&clip_start=00:01:30.72&clip_end=00:02:20.50&clip_caption=CTV Toronto: Pat Foran on the luxury car price drop&clip_id=ctvnews.20070925.00214000-00214848-clip1&subhub=video&no_ads=&sortdate=20070925&slug=consumer_cars_070925&archive=CTVNews

[johngenx]

Why in North America does everyone just sue everyone else, what ever happened to consumer power, vote with your feet FFS!

Well, NAFTA is a unilateral agreement that seems to have little benefit for comsumers, and many for manufacturers.  Honda and Toyota can move across borders completely unfettered, seeking the lowest cost of everything, including labour, but they make rules that prohibit consumers from doing the same.  Live by the sword, die by it too.

And the "smaller market" argument holds NO water.  Canada is a geographic extension of the US using nearly identical standards, meaning most cars sold in the US comply with Canadian standards perhaps excepting the speedo/odo.  Don't tell me that it costs $15,000 for Subaru to change the Outback's speedo.

Consumers do have some power, and we should be using it.  ANY maker that disallows cross-border shopping is OFF my list of new car potential purchases, and I won't be shy about letting them know about it.  More people need to do that.  Toyota is the WORST offender and any thought we had of buying a Yaris or anything else they make is no longer.  Their level of hubris regarding Canadian consumers is staggering and they can go themselves.

[dorin]

with John.

Why in North America does everyone just sue everyone else, what ever happened to consumer power, vote with your feet FFS!

That's the point - we're not allowed to vote with our feet/wallet if US dealers won't sell to us.  How up is that?

[carcrazy]

Other than Honda, Toyota and VW who else is on the "black list"?

[mdxtasy]

GM doesn't honour warranty unless the car is 6 months old and has 12k on it.  But atleast they sell to Canucks...for now.

[dorin]

GM doesn't honour warranty unless the car is 6 months old and has 12k on it.  But atleast they sell to Canucks...for now.

Not according to the New York state GM dealers interviewed by CBC radio...

[airbalancer]

GM doesn't honour warranty unless the car is 6 months old and has 12k on it.  But atleast they sell to Canucks...for now.

Not according to the New York state GM dealers interviewed by CBC radio...

What was the hi-lite of the interview?

[BJB]

I was also under the impression that toyota/lexus will honour the warrantyin Canada, am I incorrect?