Topic: Discuss: Feature - Canadian vs U.S. vehicle prices: are we paying too much?

[mmret]

Hold on, let me get this straight. Complaining about complaining about complaining about prices. 

Winner!

[Accordingly]

Beating a dead horse over and over can't be all that fun now can it? 

You tell us. You made the same point over 50 posts ago and you're still here.

Let's stay on topic eh?  Everybody in this entire thread is a one trick story.  Same thing over and over....no exceptions.     There's got to be something different to say about this issue.  I have nothing constructive to add to this thread because in all honesty, I really don't care if prices in the US are more than in Canada.  Why?  If I deem the Canadian prices too high, I'll go south to buy one.  What I do want to do is challenge all these 'complainers' to find something different to say. 

Your rationale of "challenging these complainers" doesn't hold much water. People want to explore and discuss the issues. And that is sufficient reason to post a thread; it doesn't have to include a nationwide vehicle pricing equalization plan to be valid.

There appears to be no end to threads regarding GM quality (it may or may not have improved), Subaru is the perfect (yet overpriced) vehicle, "what vehicle should I buy," etc., etc. They are repetitive for some. But they are informative and entertaining for others. This topic is no different, except that it bugs certain veterans here.

Of course, as others have pointed out, complaining about complainers complaining about other complainers is perfectly acceptable.

[sailor723]

In my opinion the whole Canadian pricing topic is probably the single biggest issue facing the Canadian car industry at the moment.Witness the increasing amount of nonautomotive press coverage in recent weeks up to and including comments by the federal minister of finance on a recent CBC radio program. As such I certainly think it's a valid topic for discussion/comment/updates on this forum.

 If you're not interested in this topic why not just ignore it rather than cluttering up the threads with  brilliant comments like "blah,blah,blah" and innovative phrases such as "same old,same old".

 

[mdxtasy]

Rather than jus sit idly by and have discussions about the exact same idea or statement being mentioned over and over again, I challenge all those interested to come up with another arguement or another point of view, or another idea, or another way of bringing alignment to the discrepancy in pricing.  While others are content to accepting the same arguement/idea from different posters and calling that productive discussion, I would rather read about new ideas from different perspectives, which could lead some new ideas.  Going in circles breeds inaction. 

So, rather than debate whether I care or not about this topic, we should consider simmering down and focusing on something constructive to say.  I'm not against discussing this issue, it is a big deal and a strategy should be developed to level the playing field, but let's get back on topic and try to think outside the box.  Verbatim is so passe. 

[Baron von Raschke]

Rather than jus sit idly by and have discussions about the exact same idea or statement being mentioned over and over again, I challenge all those interested to come up with another arguement or another point of view, or another idea, or another way of bringing alignment to the discrepancy in pricing.  While others are content to accepting the same arguement/idea from different posters and calling that productive discussion, I would rather read about new ideas from different perspectives, which could lead some new ideas.  Going in circles breeds inaction. 

So, rather than debate whether I care or not about this topic, we should consider simmering down and focusing on something constructive to say.  I'm not against discussing this issue, it is a big deal and a strategy should be developed to level the playing field, but let's get back on topic and try to think outside the box.  Verbatim is so passe. 

Seems to me several posters already challenged your complaining with good agruments, but you chose to ignore them and repeat your distaste for the topic.

If you have nothing constructive to add, why not just ignore the topic you obviously distaste?  When people are passionate about a topic they will talk about it, even if it seems repetitve to those who don't like, or are indifferent to it. 

One way to address this issue is to keep it in public view and not let it be swept under the rug.

[Cord]

I've never seen this condescending, arrogant streak in you before MD. I'm kind of surprised. What you don't seem to understand is that you don't have to be part of this (or any) discussion. If a certain thread bugs you, then you should just ignore it.

You "challenge all those interested" to make this thread more entertaining for you? Wow.

[sailor723]

I'm not against discussing this issue, it is a big deal and a strategy should be developed to level the playing field, but let's get back on topic and try to think outside the box.   

 Keeping this topic in the media and in the public eye through forums such as this IS A STRATEGY TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD. No company likes to be publicly accused of "ripping off" consumers and the more this topic gets talked about online and is the subject of an increasing number of media stories the more the pressure will mount on the car industry in Canada to adjust prices to reflect their recently reduced costs.

[jcon]

Here's a point: I bought an Accord last year. I like it. If Honda drops the price here in Canada on new Accords the value of my Accord will drop, significantly more than it already has. Honda sold me on their reliability and re-sale value. If they undermine that re-sale value, I'll be upset. So am I saying screw you to new Accord shoppers? I guess I am, kind of.

Another point: Should all car prices be tied to the dollar? If the dollar goes down a $.01 like it did today, should car prices go up that same amount? Where is the limit? Should there be a cap? What happens when the dollar drops and the price of cars skyrockets? Then we'll have even more to complain about, but we like that.

Why can't market forces dictate the price? Mazda sells its 3 at around the same price in Canada and the US. If Subaru sales slip (how could they even tell?) in Canada I would expect Global Subaru to ask the question why? Subaru Canada would say prices are too high. D'uh, fix them. Car companies shouldn't be fighting their American brothers, but rather fighting their competitors. Things are tough enough for car companies as is, why create new enemies?

If you don't like the price, don't buy the car.

Ultimately GM, Ford, and Chrysler will win in all this. The rest are just screwing themselves (literally).

[ovr50]

My take on this is that by repeating the same mantra over and over on THIS forum does very little to influence car companies in Canada to reduce prices. I doubt few car co executives in Canada bother to read this forum at all.

If all the efforts of complaining on here were re-directed into emails/letter/calls to Canadian offices of the car makers and were re-directed into emails to your MP or other political person with some clout, more pressure would be brought to bear than by repeating the same argument on here constantly.

Would I like to pay less for a vehicle in Canada? Of course. The spread is too large based on CURRENT exchange rates (although the rates were the other way not long ago). Will the Canadian $ stay this strong against the US $ long term? Who knows? Pricing cannot react to every swing of the exchange rate, but over time, if the US buck stays weak, Cdn prices "should" drop (or US prices go up?).

I get more uptight about paying $8 for a car mag that sells for $5 in the US. That change can happen overnight, ie. the next press run of the mag can be priced differently. And, ppl who are REALLY uptight about the difference can import. Several articles lately have laid out the steps to take.

I hope those that are serious about price changes can re-direct their energies in a more positive way to the players who will do the most good, rather than repeating the mantra here continually.

And, of course, I can ignore the thread - so can the car companies. 

[Cord]

Well, this is an internet discussion forum. I doubt anyone visits or posts here because they think they can influence car makers directly. If a thread was considered a failure because it didn't result in concrete changes to the automotive world there'd be lots of disappointment to go around.

[mmret]

(or US prices go up?).

Heresy.

[Cord]

It's been said a few times that greed is behind higher Canadian prices and that Canadian companies are charging more just because they can. It stands to reason that American companies would do the same - if they could. Have any of the greed theorists thought about why American companies can't just raise their prices to Canadian levels?

[airbalancer]

My take on this is that by repeating the same mantra over and over on THIS forum does very little to influence car companies in Canada to reduce prices. I doubt few car co executives in Canada bother to read this forum at all.

Did not CTC get a long term VW wagon because people were bitching about VW on the forum

[UmroAyyar]

CTC and numerous other publications, television shows are taking up this issue and this thread was actually started by a CTC contributor to discuss this particular issue.

Its ok if people complain about prices and its ok if people complain about the complainers etcetera.

I'd rather like to read this discussion here in this thread than every thread though. Thats my complain.

[tpl]

"
Would I like to pay less for a vehicle in Canada? Of course. The spread is too large based on CURRENT exchange rates (although the rates were the other way not long ago). Will the Canadian $ stay this strong against the US $ long term? Who knows? Pricing cannot react to every swing of the exchange rate, but over time, if the US buck stays weak, Cdn prices "should" drop (or US prices go up?). "

"Another point: Should all car prices be tied to the dollar? If the dollar goes down a $.01 like it did today, should car prices go up that same amount? Where is the limit? Should there be a cap? What happens when the dollar drops and the price of cars skyrockets? Then we'll have even more to complain about, but we like that."

I would accept that all cars sold in the whole of NA be priced in US$ plus local taxes and fees.   FOB the factory or port of entry.  This would mean I hope that the fixed "freight" would then be a variable fee depending on where the car retailer was. I think that this would essentially destroy "dealers" and replace them with "retailers" and "service depots".  It would also mean that some people would probably travel to buy their car at the factory gate...
IIRC BMW does that in the EU, all BMWs are priced in Euros FOB the factory and local taxes are applied at the retailers.

 Note tho' before flaming that I personally would accept a common market/ customs union or other economic union with the USA ( which is the only way this would come to pass) and I know that is a minority view in Canada.... very minority.


Until this happens I will buy my cars at Canadian dealers with Canadian $$.

[2latecrew]

It's been said a few times that greed is behind higher Canadian prices and that Canadian companies are charging more just because they can. It stands to reason that American companies would do the same - if they could. Have any of the greed theorists thought about why American companies can't just raise their prices to Canadian levels?

My guess is competion.

The US market is much more competative tan Canada. More peo[ple more dealers more car companies. Heck you can easily buy your car over the internet in the US. Invoice and TMV pricing are redily and freely available.

Car companies do many stupid things but I don't think pricing strategy is one of them (in most cases).

There is an optimum point opf price/volume. In the US volume can be much higher so price can come down to meet that optimum volume. In canada volume is much lower  so I'm only guiessing but the mathmatical models likley show that dropping price to US levels wouldn't increase volume enough (becuase there isn't that much to be gained) to ofset the lost revenue.

Lobbying government or talking to anyone won't help.

Someone with influence is the only one who can change things. Now if a few large dealers in Canada see substantial drops in volume due to US importaion and start to squak about it then yopu'll likley see some action most likley some kind of restriction on import sales vs a price change but those are the only people of influence they care about.

If 1 manufacturer drops prices to US levels in Canada and thus takes sales from another company you'd also see some action.

The only lobying action I can see having any effect is some type of action to get importaion laws changed making it easier to buy from the US I do think some of the barriers are a bit artificial and consessions to the manufacturers than for any other good reason.

If a car is built in Can/US you shopuld be able to buy it an bring it across the borders paying noting more than tax and registration. If people lobbied for this and made it easy to do then more importaion would likley follow which in trun would result in acation being requested by Canadian dealers on price.

[JBrill]

This topic is clearly starting to have an impact at car dealerships... but in true stealership fashion, not in the expected way.

I'm currently in the market for a fully loaded minivan.  I want it all, power doors/lift gate, DVD, leather, etc...  Went into Honda yesterday, the Odyssey Touring starts at $48,100, a full $10k over US prices.  I mention this to the sales guy and he has his Honda speaking points sheet in front of him and spouts off the lines.  Smaller market (so what when the border is 100km away), not the same options (hmm, from what I can tell, the only difference is the mpg vs kph display, at most a $300 fix), Honda won't honour US warranty (not true, I asked the service department, they have no choice but too, they want the business)... etc, etc, I had a counter for all his points.  I even pointed out the bloody van is made in Ontario and the PDI is $1500 in Canada but only $595 in the US??? Finally, I told him to meet me 3/4 of the way and knock off $7k.  Left him my business card.

This morning, I have a message, $4k discount.  I call him back, keep trying, I'm on the phone to New York dealership negotiating with them, dealer even has, in stock, kph display kit to make the conversion.  Wants my business.  Wonder what the local dealer will come back with.  I suspect they'll tell me to suck eggs as they only have 5 left in stock and there are still sheep out there willing to pay full price.

Looks like a road trip to the US is in my very near future.

JB

[jcon]

(not true, I asked the service department, they have no choice but too, they want the business)

That doesn't make sense. They do the work then Honda USA reimburses them. If Honda USA does not honour the warranty than they won't get reimbursed. I would do more research than that.

I guess if you have 40k to put down on the van then do so in the states. Good luck.

[Turbo Bob]

they only have 5 left in stock and there are still sheep out there willing to pay full price.

And that's the key...

Good work though JBrill, at least someone is doing something about it!    I did the same with my MR2, went to the dealer, showed them the massive discount I could get from importing my own (UK spec, made in the same factory as the cars from Holland) they quoted me the UK price, I said I'm not giving them money for charity, walked out and imported my own.

It's actions not words that will change the manufacturer's attitudes. Hopefully people talking about it on here will give others the confidence to import their own, it's not difficult, especially if they will honour the warranty.

[Baron von Raschke]

JBrill,

Great to see someone taking action.  I will buying a vehicle within a year and I am looking at Atlantic Auto Exporters.  They claim to do all the work for you, including locating the vehicle and taking care of the paperwork and shipping.

Has anyone tried importing a vehicle via an importer?  If so, was it worth the fee?

Again, good on you JBrill