Topic: Photo Radar Rears it's Ugly Head (Toronto)

[50362]

Over the past couple weeks politicians have been discussing the possibility about bringing back photo radar. A  Toronto talk radio host has covered the topic and simply states that if photo radar was to be reintroduced then raise the speed limits to a reasonable speed. I agree.

Sorry, 100km/h limit highway doesn't cut it. apparently only 1% of drivers obey speed limits. So is the reintroduction of photo radar nothing more then a cash grab?

Before Canada adopted the metric system our highway speeds were 70 mph (correct me if I'm wrong).

120 km/h highway
90 km/h secondary (my choice on secondary highways would be 100km/h).

?

[quadzilla]

This topic has been covered extensively in the past...try the search button.

[50362]

I know but its back in the news again....

Sorry, if it does come back I'm sure people will be whining about it on this site.

[stodge]

Why raise limits? People won't stick to them anyway. Clamp down on speeding and dangerous and reckless driving. If people didn't drive like selfish idiots in the first place, you'd have nothing to complain about! 

[Roblins]

Why raise limits? People won't stick to them anyway. Clamp down on speeding and dangerous and reckless driving. If people didn't drive like selfish idiots in the first place, you'd have nothing to complain about! 

The current speed limits are not enforceable because the general public has been 'allowed' to travel in excess of the posted speed limit within a fairly significant margin.  The raising of speed limits must coincide with a next-to-zero tolerance of speeding.  Otherwise, raising the posted limit will just increase the rate of speed of the high-speed drivers which we don't want to do. 

I actually liked photo radar.  It was SOOOOOO easy to spot those Chevy Astro vans parked along the highway or at the overpasses.  The traffic reports even told the public where the vans were.  You had to be a real idiot to get caught.

My thoughts as to where speed limits should be:

100 -> 120
80 -> 100
70 -> 80
50 -> 60
40 no change (school zones)

[50362]

Why raise limits? People won't stick to them anyway. Clamp down on speeding and dangerous and reckless driving. If people didn't drive like selfish idiots in the first place, you'd have nothing to complain about! 

Good point. Why do people drive like idiots here in the Republic. Drivers licences are to easy to obtain and keep. Also, lack of education (driver education wise).

I travel to Germany quite a bit and the driving behavior by Germans is totally opposite to the way we drive.  I might add that obtaining a drivers licence in Germany isn't a 'formality' like it is here in Canada. There licencing requirements are comparable to obtaining a Private, Recreational Aircraft Pilots licence here in Canada which equals a great deal of expense therefore people there appreciate and value there licence validity.

It all starts with education...

[CyberNick]

Before Canada adopted the metric system our highway speeds were 70 mph (correct me if I'm wrong).

120 km/h highway

70 mph = 112.65408 km/h
120 km/h = 74.564543068 mph

[Arthur Dent]

Why raise limits? People won't stick to them anyway. Clamp down on speeding and dangerous and reckless driving. If people didn't drive like selfish idiots in the first place, you'd have nothing to complain about! 

The current speed limits are not enforceable because the general public has been 'allowed' to travel in excess of the posted speed limit within a fairly significant margin.  The raising of speed limits must coincide with a next-to-zero tolerance of speeding.  Otherwise, raising the posted limit will just increase the rate of speed of the high-speed drivers which we don't want to do. 

I actually liked photo radar.  It was SOOOOOO easy to spot those Chevy Astro vans parked along the highway or at the overpasses.  The traffic reports even told the public where the vans were.  You had to be a real idiot to get caught.

My thoughts as to where speed limits should be:

100 -> 120
80 -> 100
70 -> 80
50 -> 60
40 no change (school zones)

they get sneaky like here (in Calgary) using old pickups, hiding in bushes, setting up fake construction zones, etc.

[dr_spock]

You're responsible for obeying the law.  You break it, you pay.   

[johngenx]

When I drive the Subaru on the highway, I stick to the posted speed limit.  It makes a HUGE difference in the fuel economy in the brick-like wagooon.  The C230 is not nearly as sensitive to speed with regards to fuel economy, and at 125-140 can still get in the 7.5 range.

One thing I do like about driving 110 in the 110 zones on divided highways is the ability to use the cruise control and NEVER pass anyone.  Very low stress.  I do get the occasional swerver that tailgates me even though there is plenty of room to pass, so I just ease off until I'm down to 80 or so, and then even the most determined jerk-off will go around.

Photo radar is a joke and plain does not work.  Sitting on the roadisde losing ALL the time you were trying to make up and then some is the only real way to enforce the speed limits.  Getting a ticket in the mail pales compared to the sickening feeling of seeing rollers in the mirror.

[AVToller]

When I drive the Subaru on the highway, I stick to the posted speed limit.  It makes a HUGE difference in the fuel economy in the brick-like wagooon.  The C230 is not nearly as sensitive to speed with regards to fuel economy, and at 125-140 can still get in the 7.5 range.

One thing I do like about driving 110 in the 110 zones on divided highways is the ability to use the cruise control and NEVER pass anyone.  Very low stress.  I do get the occasional swerver that tailgates me even though there is plenty of room to pass, so I just ease off until I'm down to 80 or so, and then even the most determined jerk-off will go around.

Photo radar is a joke and plain does not work.  Sitting on the roadisde losing ALL the time you were trying to make up and then some is the only real way to enforce the speed limits.  Getting a ticket in the mail pales compared to the sickening feeling of seeing rollers in the mirror.

Quite right. 

[Cord]

Albertans have put up with the abomination of photo radar for years now. Maybe now that it'll affect Toronto it'll become a big deal.

I recently read that they were going to integrate photo radar into red light cameras. So much for spotting a van on the side of the road.

[Trainman]

So is the reintroduction of photo radar nothing more then a cash grab?

It is not a cash grab as YOU have to CHOOSE to speed.  You do the crime, be prepared to pay.  Consider it a voluntary tax   

No speed, no pay, no "cash grab"   

[stodge]

Well it is a cash grab, because they know that a lot of people speed and they WILL make money. 

[Snowman]

You're responsible for obeying the law.  You break it, you pay.   

 I consider fines and higher insurance rates a user fee. I like to speed so I pay.

[99 Silver]

My major beef with photo radar in it's previous life in Ontario was how they stacked up the justice system to make it very difficult to challenge the ticket.

1) You had to meet with the prosecutor before you could fight the ticket - in the location where the ticket was issued.  You couldn't fight it by sending in the ticket with notice.

2) They would not provide basic evidence such as the training record of the officer, calibration of the equipment, or the paper trail of the film being sent for processing.  They would only give you a colour 8x10 of your car with the speed imprinted on the bottom.

3) They refused to have the officer present for examination.  I was photographed near a turn and geometry was involved in the calculations.  The officer claimed to have parked his van exactly 1.20 metres from the fog line from both wheels - a remarkable feat of precision driving!

I took mine to court just to make a point and used these facts to get it thrown out.

[dorin]

Speed limits are too low.  Unless speed limits are reset to more reasonable values the "you chose to break the law" argument holds absolutely no water with me. 

[johngenx]

Speed limits are too low.  Unless speed limits are reset to more reasonable values the "you chose to break the law" argument holds absolutely no water with me. 

I agree and disagree.  The speed limits are ridiculous considering the incredible advancements in automobiles since the 1950's and the limits are the same, maybe even lower.  BUT, the sheer amount of traffic on highways that have not been reconstructed to handle the capacity has created some serious congestion and problems where the traffic flow comes to a very abrupt halt.  Driver skill has not inceased (perhaps decreased) and inattention is rampant as long commutes (thank you urbanization/sprawl) have people "multi-tasking" which is stupid way of saying "driving dangerously."

Traffic in 110 marked highway zones in Alberta flows at about 120-125.  With a 1 second following distance, FORGET the average driver being able to cope with anything other than perfect traffic.  ANY kind of problem or incident means a massive high-speed collision.  Example?  Coming home a few weeks ago on the #2, I was in the left lane doing slightly more than the flow when the truck to my 2 o'clock lost a tire, big-time.  I moved onto the shoudler and braked to avoid the out-of-control pick-up and bits of flying tire.  The Civic tailgating me (less than 15 feet behind me) was not so lucky as he had no time to react.  Crash.  Had I been 15 feet behind someone, we'd have been in the too.

I have a feeling that if we increase speed limits with no other changes, we're just asking for trouble.  However, we might deal with one collision problem: speed difference.  That is the massive speed difference between the slower group and the faster cars.  BUT, I suspect not.  See, the "slower group" might move up to the new limit, but the "fast group" will simply increase their speed by the amount the limit is raised.  People that cruised at 125 in the 110 would now do 135 in a 120 zone.  We still have all the trouble, but now everyone is crashing at 135 instead of 125.  Stupid.

But, we have to question the motivations of gov't officials when it comes to all kinds of things.  Are red-light cameras about safety or money?  When my suburb installed a red light camera it was disappointed at the lack of tickets.  Instead of being happy about the lack of red light runners, it shortened the AMBER LIGHTS timing in order to "catch more offenders."  Huh?  Catch more offenders?  They MADE offenders.  It is this thinking that has me severly distrusting officials when it comes to setting traffic policy.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Very well said John.

One of the benefits of living in NB is the absence of real traffic. Depending on the time of day, I can drive from Fredericton to Moncton and see maybe a dozen cars on the four lane. Four lane speed limits are 110 here while traffic generally travels 120km/h.

[50362]

OK two people here have stated if you break the law you pay.

I hate to stereo type but that comment is the typical Canadian response.

First off or speed limits are TO LOW compaired to the rest of the world.  Most european countries have 130 km/h and 100km/h on secondary highways and to mention UNlimited on Germany's autobahn, well most of it.  Even the United States has increased there limits from the old double nickle in the 70's to 70 and even 75 mph. Here in the GTA I've seen speeds actually reduced. Cars are safer then ever.