CTC Review: 2007 Lexus IS250 RWD

[wing]

Interesting as this Lexus I have has firm steering, and I came out of a GTI and Mini Cooper (The mini had super firm steering).

I drove the TSX last fall I believe, from what I remember the steering was light, it is actually one of the reasons I chose to not buy it when I was looking back in 2004.  Perhaps it is a subliminal FWD hatred ?

Oh I should clarify, I didn't say road feel was good in the IS250... I've said too much I'll have nothing to write about!

[mmret]

I find the TSX steering to be decently firm. By "feel" I assume you mean that the wheel jerks around based on the front wheels getting knocked around? I do notice it quite a bit...

The ratio could be slightly tighter on it, though....or maybe the range of motion on the wheels just needs to be wider (would help the turning circle perhaps?)

[JT816]

I own a TSX and I can confirm that the steering is very firm, firmer than the IS and most (if not all) Japanese branded cars (I've driven the IS 250, 350 on about 6 different occassions).

I have to admit, I LOVE the IS but honestly, I think when it comes down to it, it's overpriced compared to the competition. You get the leather and sunroof for the IS250 with auto and all of a sudden, it costs more than a G35 with similar options, more than a TL, more than a BMW 323 or 328, A4 2.0; all of which has more HP than the 250 (except the Audi but that turbo engine feels so much faster).  

[The Mighty Duck]

I wonder how the Toyota 2.5L would respond to a turbo kit?  Much as I love the IS250 (imo they look absolutely stunning), the 250 is underpowered and the 350 cannot be had with a proper manual tranny.  The power problem is persistent across the board, but at least the competition offers a manual gearbox in their more powerful machines...

I think, though, that a 250 with the right modifications would be a real pleasure... 

[Mitlov]

The power problem is persistent across the board

Except for the Infiniti "if it doesn't have 300hp, it's not worth building" G35

Anyway, good info on the TSX and IS250.  In a couple years I might look into trading in my Legacy for a used example of one of these.  The Legacy just isn't quite the driver's car I expected, despite the power to the rear wheels. [/tangent]

[quadzilla]

Good review so far James. 

Can you comment on how you find the sport suspension compared to the other cars you have driven lately.

Regarding power...With similar weight/power to my Mz6 I'm thinking the IS250 would be fine for most people that don't crave super fast acceleration all the time.  For those who do, step up to the IS350.

[Blueprint]

This is the only Lexus I would consider, exact same specs (and colour !) than James' car.  It's quite simple : I'm done with slushboxes.  Power is still adequate with the 2.5, and having full control over the tranny beats the IS350 for me any day.

[jww]

I find the discussion of the FWD TSX vs RWD IS interesting. I have not driven both cars, so I can't jump into the fray on opinion - however, am curious how a turbo-charge FWD handles compared to the more traditional RWD non-turbo drive train. How does turbo-lag affect the TSX vs. the normally aspirated 6 on the IS? Would the FWD corner less impressively?

[wing]

Ummm the TSX is not turbo it is a NA 4 cyl engine 2.4L producing 200hp, the IS is a small 2.5L 6 with what seems like more torque... I'll have to check the numbers.

After driving the IS again this morning though I stand by my statement of firm and good feeling steering.  It may have a lot to do with tires, the 18" tires on my tester are summer gummies and they track the road very well. 

RWD vs FWD... no contest.  Sorry Honda fans

[Spheric]

What's with the uni-directional tires and the fact that the rear and front tires are different sizes ?  I presume tire rotation is out of the question ?

[The Mighty Duck]

Not uncommon on a RWD car.  And most performance tires are uni-directional.

[nm]

Wing, I would rate the TSX steering firmnest up there on par with a Mini Cooper S with 17" tires, and the RX-8.  How does the IS steering compare relative to your S2000 and your previous RX-8?

For those wondering why many are concerned with steering firmness/feel, it is like a channel of communication between the car and the driver on front end grip and workload.  Light steering is like whispering, communication is dampened.  Although firm steering doesn't necessarily equate to better feel.  The ideal is a linear correlation between steering effort and workload on the front tires, so that the driver can sense this along with the seat of his pants. This feel can depend on suspension geometry, tire contruction, amount of assist on power steering, etc.

The IS250AWD i drove had 17" vs. 18" in your tester.  You must've driven the IS250AWD and IS350 also; do you notice a difference? At one point I was considering an IS250 just like your tester, but was turned off by numb steering feel of the IS250AWD demo that I took out (they didn't have a 250MT at the dealership).  If indeed there is a difference between your tester and other IS variants, I think it'd be nice to know as many who are interested in the IS layout (sporty) would be turned off by its numb steering (typical toyota).

I will say that steering response was quicker in the IS I tested than the TSX.  It felt to be a result of a lower steering ratio, rather than a lighter front end, like that on the RX-8, which turns in extremely well.

[wing]

Tough question nm, been a long time since I drove the RX8, I do remember dinstinctly the RX8 have better feel than the TSX as I test drove them back to back when I was looking at buying a car back in '04.

The IS250AWD I only zipped around the block in when they first came out and the IS350 was wearing winter rubber and I had it for a week of blizzards here in Ottawa... I remember it was quiet and fast   There are advantages and disadvantages to driving a lot of cars, the disadvantage is trying to remember which car felt like what.

The Mini Cooper S I had was ridiculous for firmness I could barely turn the steering wheel, It required 2 hands with a VERY firm grip on the wheel and all my body weight to turn it (ok slightly over exaggerated) but it was THAT firm.

The S2000 has light steering for a sports car some complain it has no feel but I find it feels just fine, the electric steering adds to some numbness for those use to power steering racks.  I concentrated on the IS steering this morning and it's communication, it felt really great to me, with good direct steering feel and you could feel road undulations coming from the wheel.  In a FWD car you feel the wheels grab bumps and shoot sideways a little especially under power.  Not so with RWD for obvious reasons.

[mmret]

Ummm the TSX is not turbo it is a NA 4 cyl engine 2.4L producing 200hp, the IS is a small 2.5L 6 with what seems like more torque... I'll have to check the numbers.

After driving the IS again this morning though I stand by my statement of firm and good feeling steering.  It may have a lot to do with tires, the 18" tires on my tester are summer gummies and they track the road very well. 

RWD vs FWD... no contest.  Sorry Honda fans

Would be surprising to me if the IS didn't have a very sizeable torque advantage.

TSX only has 164 @ 4400 if I recall correctly.

I need that Red Honda badge.

[jww]

Ummm the TSX is not turbo it is a NA 4 cyl engine 2.4L producing 200hp, the IS is a small 2.5L 6 with what seems like more torque... I'll have to check the numbers.
...

RWD vs FWD... no contest.  Sorry Honda fans

Got it - I can't recall why I was thinking the TSX had a turbo. In any event, I agree - RWD or AWD over FWD anytime in my book.

[wing]

Hey my reply didn't show up.... 185lb-ft for the IS

[Mitlov]

TSX has 205 hp @ 7000 rpm; Lexus 204 @ 6400.
TSX has 164 ft-lbs @ 4500 rpm; Lexus 185 @ 4800.
TSX weighs 3257 lbs; Lexus 3455.

Acura's comparison page lists the TSX's FWD as an "Acura Advantage" over the IS's RWD 

[mmret]

TSX has 205 hp @ 7000 rpm; Lexus 204 @ 6400.
TSX has 164 ft-lbs @ 4500 rpm; Lexus 185 @ 4800.
TSX weighs 3257 lbs; Lexus 3455.

Acura's comparison page lists the TSX's FWD as an "Acura Advantage" over the IS's RWD 

Hmm, thought the IS250 had more under the hood.

[airbalancer]

TSX has 205 hp @ 7000 rpm; Lexus 204 @ 6400.
TSX has 164 ft-lbs @ 4500 rpm; Lexus 185 @ 4800.
TSX weighs 3257 lbs; Lexus 3455.

Acura's comparison page lists the TSX's FWD as an "Acura Advantage" over the IS's RWD 

and a 3 series
323i                            328i                       335i
200hp@6000rpm         230@6,500             300@5,800
180lb-ft@4000             200@2,750             300@1,400

[Mitlov]

and a 3 series
323i                            328i                       335i
200hp@6000rpm         230@6,500             300@5,800
180lb-ft@4000             200@2,750             300@1,400

323i and maybe, just maybe, 328i is worth listing for comparison's sake, though if we're going to do that, we should list the IS350 and IS-F as well.  But I don't see the point of even mentioning the 335i.  Comparing the 335i and the TSX is crazy because, comparably equipped, a 335i costs about 60% more.