CD Article: 2007 Minivan Challenge

[Mitlov]

I wonder what will happen as cars get smaller for better economy. I also wonder how the Euros do with their much smaller cars... I have never checked or looked at eu legal kid seats in cars... had no need or interest.  Sideshow Bob might know.

I'm curious about that too.  We've got a Britax Roundabout convertible seat in a rearward-facing position right now.  It's behind the passenger seat of my Legacy, and the front passenger seat is now lacking in leg room as a consequence (and I'm only 5'7").  My wife's Tacoma is another story--it fits just fine in there, without any major sacrifice in front-seat legroom.

My understanding is that the Legacy is a pretty big car by European standards.  I have no idea how you'd fit a Britax Roundabout into a Cleo or a Yaris.

[mdxtasy]

We have the Britax Marathon.....rear facing...it nudged up against my headrest.

[UmroAyyar]

We had the Graco Snugride rearfacing seat in our 2002 Corolla, anyone over 5'10" tall couldn't sit in the front passenger seat.


Later we switched to this Graco Paltinum Cargo Booster Seat. Made a lot of difference in the Corolla.

[Arthur Dent]

I've managed two big car seats + booster seat into a 2nd gen Neon and a Acura TSX before. Its not pretty but its do-able.

Euro cars seats are much smaller and less strong by the way. I think mandating our style ones were be unworkable over there.

[Mitlov]

I've managed two big car seats + booster seat into a 2nd gen Neon and a Acura TSX before. Its not pretty but its do-able.

Different cars work differently.  There's more front passenger legroom in a Ford Focus with my car seat behind it (which my mother rents to visit us) than in my Legacy with my car seat behind it, despite the fact that the Focus is overall a much smaller car.

[mmret]

Ahh, converting SUV people in denial to Minivan drivers. I like.

[Turbo Bob]

I wonder what will happen as cars get smaller for better economy. I also wonder how the Euros do with their much smaller cars... I have never checked or looked at eu legal kid seats in cars... had no need or interest.  Sideshow Bob might know.

I'm curious about that too.  We've got a Britax Roundabout convertible seat in a rearward-facing position right now.  It's behind the passenger seat of my Legacy, and the front passenger seat is now lacking in leg room as a consequence (and I'm only 5'7").  My wife's Tacoma is another story--it fits just fine in there, without any major sacrifice in front-seat legroom.

My understanding is that the Legacy is a pretty big car by European standards.  I have no idea how you'd fit a Britax Roundabout into a Cleo or a Yaris.

We currently have a Britax seat in the TSX that can be both rearward and forward facing. It's huge!  Rearward it takes up a lot of room, but you could still get 4 adults in the car.  I have just turned it around this weekend and there is much more legroom for the front passenger now.  You could still fit two of these seats in the back, so to all you doubters out there who say you need something way bigger than a TSX when you have 2 kids I disagree.  For people who want more space and whatever to move about and store stuff then fine but for me it's not a necessity.

If I had two kids and I wanted to go away for a week+ I would need to seriously think about something bigger, but flights and hotels are so cheap in Europe it's cheaper to fly to France/Italy etc. than it is to holiday in the UK.  Maybe in NA the "vacation" culture is different so why not have the extra room.
 

[Mitlov]

You could still fit two of these seats in the back, so to all you doubters out there who say you need something way bigger than a TSX when you have 2 kids I disagree.  For people who want more space and whatever to move about and store stuff then fine but for me it's not a necessity.

The way I see it:

1-2 kids, or 1 kid and a dog: midsize and some compact sedans are okay, though the compact sedans are tight when you start considering strollers, diaper bags, etc.

2 kids and a dog: proper wagon with real wagon area (Legacy/Outback, Passat, Mazda6, V70, Magnum) will cut it.  Miniature wagons (A4 avant, V50, Impreza wagon) won't, unless it's a beagle or a corgi.

3 kids: minivan, crossover, or SUV necessary.  I'm not aware of any sedans that will seat three modern car seats across.  Not to mention that most vehicles don't have LATCH tethers for the rear center seat.

If I had two kids and I wanted to go away for a week+ I would need to seriously think about something bigger, but flights and hotels are so cheap in Europe it's cheaper to fly to France/Italy etc. than it is to holiday in the UK.  Maybe in NA the "vacation" culture is different so why not have the extra room.
 

I think road trips are more popular here, partly due to lower fuel costs and less congested roads, partly due to the fact that American airports are NIGHTMARES (never seen a Canadian one; don't know if they're the same). 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

In my day, kids weren't too good to go through a windshield or two!

We had a rear facing seat and a booster seat in the back of our Escort GT, before switching to the Corolla wagon. Could pack up the wagon for a week long family trip (two kids) without issue, and that included a wheelchair for the oldest. Still got in the 6.5L/100 km range too.

4500lb "mini" vans are supposed to be more economic than a SUV or CUV how exactly?
(From the EPA www.fueleconomy.gov)

[Mitlov]

4500lb "mini" vans are supposed to be more economic than a SUV or CUV how exactly?
(From the EPA www.fueleconomy.gov)

Full-sized truck-based SUVs are horrifically inefficient.  But there's not much difference in fuel economy between a larger CUV and a minivan (particularly an AWD minivan like the Sienna).  There's a slight loss of interior space with the CUV, but an increase in ground clearance and AWD more often available.  As for sliding doors versus traditional, that's just personal taste.

I'm not convinced that minivans really offer much more utility than the new breed of large CUVs (Acadia, Flex, Veracruz).

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Full-sized truck-based SUVs are horrifically inefficient.  But there's not much difference in fuel economy between a larger CUV and a minivan (particularly an AWD minivan like the Sienna).  There's a slight loss of interior space with the CUV, but an increase in ground clearance and AWD more often available.  As for sliding doors versus traditional, that's just personal taste.

I'm not convinced that minivans really offer much more utility than the new breed of large CUVs (Acadia, Flex, Veracruz).

True enough, Mitlov.

Way back when, minivans were an efficient alternative to traditional sedans and wagons. Today, vans are an equally inefficient alternative to SUVs and CUVs, so I don't really understand the premise of converting SUV owners to minivans.

Full sized SUVs don't really make up a very large part of the Canadian market.

[safristi]

  HONEY ......................why don't ya "shrink" the kids.........

[Mitlov]

Full sized SUVs don't really make up a very large part of the Canadian market.

Full-sized SUVs and full-sized pickups are at least 30% of the vehicles on the road here in southern Oregon.  I wish I was kidding.

[mdxtasy]

We currently have a Britax seat in the TSX that can be both rearward and forward facing. It's huge!  Rearward it takes up a lot of room, but you could still get 4 adults in the car.  I have just turned it around this weekend and there is much more legroom for the front passenger now.  You could still fit two of these seats in the back, so to all you doubters out there who say you need something way bigger than a TSX when you have 2 kids I disagree.  For people who want more space and whatever to move about and store stuff then fine but for me it's not a necessity.

4 adults and the car seat into the TSX?  Are the rearward passengers sitting sideways or on top of one another?  I was able to put the Britax in the middle of the MDX, and have 2 adults on either side...comfortably.  A TSX is not as wide as the MDX.  So you have a rearward facing childseat....jamming the front passenger into the airbag, and two other adults crammed into the back?  You know, they could fit 18 adults into an Austin Mini too.....

With 2 kids...a good wagon is the perfect vehicle.  However, home ownership also requires weekend warrior duties so having the practicality of the minivan that can do almost anything is a big help. 

[mmret]

We currently have a Britax seat in the TSX that can be both rearward and forward facing. It's huge!  Rearward it takes up a lot of room, but you could still get 4 adults in the car.  I have just turned it around this weekend and there is much more legroom for the front passenger now.  You could still fit two of these seats in the back, so to all you doubters out there who say you need something way bigger than a TSX when you have 2 kids I disagree.  For people who want more space and whatever to move about and store stuff then fine but for me it's not a necessity.

You know, they could fit 18 adults into an Austin Mini too.....

Reminds me of Sin City.

"Will he fit?"

"Not like this."

[Mitlov]

On the matter of the relative efficiency of CUVs and minivans...while a Ford Freestyle didn't quite have the cargo area of a minivan, it still had an adult-friendly third-row, and in FWD setup it was more fuel efficient than a Sienna or Odyssey.  I'm not sure how the change to a more powerful V6 when it changed its name to the Taurus X will affect that.

[ktm525]

Once the Canada Post truck arrives I will be able to haul 4 children, one rear facing infant carrier and two adults in my V70R in comfort.

When I don't need the extra third rear-facing seat it folds into the floor.
With the third seat up the only issue is cargo room but that is where the ski box comes in. If I really need to haul stuff I will hook the utility trailer up. What shocked me was that v70R can handle trailers up to 3500lbs. That's tent trailer country.

[jww]

We pulled a tent trailer with little or no effort with our 1982 Volvo dl 4dr. It was a great car.

But I digress.

While our minivan days are now well behind us, the two things I do miss are the ability to buy just about any sized television set, or other odd-shaped item and load it into the back of the van, and the higher seating position. For this reason, we will probably look at SUV options next time around for the family vehicle in 2-4 years time. By that time who knows what will be on the market. How about a Mazda 5, AWD, with a diesel engine? That might fit the bill nicely 

[ktm525]

Good points. I guess I don't recognize the minvan's hauling utility. If it doesn't fit in my wagon it goes in the truck.

[Arthur Dent]

Once the Canada Post truck arrives I will be able to haul 4 children, one rear facing infant carrier and two adults in my V70R in comfort.

When I don't need the extra third rear-facing seat it folds into the floor.
With the third seat up the only issue is cargo room but that is where the ski box comes in. If I really need to haul stuff I will hook the utility trailer up. What shocked me was that v70R can handle trailers up to 3500lbs. That's tent trailer country.

Our Quest is rated for the same weight too. Not sure I'd trust any fwd transmission to hold out when hauling that kind of weight semi-regularly.