Author Topic: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem  (Read 6290 times)

Offline zq_frank

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multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« on: May 29, 2007, 10:57:41 am »
My car had vibration problem after I changed brand new tires and rims. It made me mad last a few months, and I did what ever I can do to fix it. I even don't remember how many repair stores I tried already, how many wheel balance I did already, how much money and time I spent for this problem already. Another result is that I became the tire/wheel professional finally. The problem is the multi-fits rims.
So I'd like to tell everyone here, NEVER use multi-fits rims. they are all crap. They don't match the industry standard. The simple reason is that the central hole of the rim is much bigger than the wheel hub to fit multi-cars, so the centre points of the 2 circles may not at the same position, that is the obvious reason to caused viberation. But the thing really suprise me is that there are few people know it, the people means those tire/wheel professionals, even in business over 20 -30 years and have all kind of certificates. There is one way to fix it, to use the hub centric rings, but again, most prefessionals don''t know that.
Another good recommendation is to use GSP9700 balance machine to do the tire/wheel balance, there are few shops have it, some big new car dealers have it, it's the best one in the entire industry. There are 3 ways can cause viberation, the regular balance machine can only resolve one. GSP9700 can resolve 3 of them except the muli-fits rims problem.
Hopefully my 2 cents have a little help for most innocent people.

Thanks!

Frank

Online blur911

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 12:12:00 pm »
There is one way to fix it, to use the hub centric rings, but again, most prefessionals don''t know that.


Not so much a fix as a necessary part.   Hub-centric wheels must have these.

Offline initial_D

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 12:23:30 pm »
T
There is one way to fix it, to use the hub centric rings, but again, most prefessionals don''t know that.


Not so much a fix as a necessary part.   Hub-centric wheels must have these.

Though all Shops include them with all new wheels sold, matched to specific car models. TT also include matching lug nuts at no extra cost. That is over $100 if had to purchase them separately.

Offline tpl

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2007, 02:20:34 pm »
My aftermarket rims were BMW specific in that the hub was an exact fit.  This is probably because the E46 was a popular car to buy wheels for.
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Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2007, 03:17:14 pm »
Er, any aftermarket wheel should be mounted with hub rings.  I bought my wheels used, and the guy happened to have and include the proper rings for my car.  :thumbup:  Doing it otherwise will cause problems...

I assumed this would be common knowledge at any decent auto/tire supply store...  kind of scary if they're not aware of this, though.

Offline Arthur Dent

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 03:25:10 pm »
I wonder if you didn't have the proper lug nut type. There is a couple different shapes.

Offline tpl

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 03:32:47 pm »
Er, any aftermarket wheel should be mounted with hub rings.  I bought my wheels used, and the guy happened to have and include the proper rings for my car.  :thumbup:  Doing it otherwise will cause problems...

I assumed this would be common knowledge at any decent auto/tire supply store...  kind of scary if they're not aware of this, though.

I turned down several attractive aftermarket wheels because they did not have a BMW specific fitment. Mine are as good a fit as the OEM wheels ( which are Borbet IIRC)

Offline rrocket

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 11:09:02 pm »
Yep...hub-centric rings.  I've used many wheels with rings and never a problem.  And if you pay $100 for rings, you are getting ripped off...
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Offline dr_spock

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 09:56:43 pm »
Hub centric rings, don't leave home without them.  :)


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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 11:04:54 am »
This is a great testimonial to how important it is to have the correct hardware. No matter how good the balanicing is. If the wheels do not centre on the hub, the assembly isn't round. These days it is rare to find a hub-centric wheel, so the rings are a necessity. If your wheel is not hub-centric and you do not have rings it will vibrate.

BMW has a bolt pattern that is common to BMW. Therefore, many of the wheels built in this bolt circle are hub-centric because they would only fit those specific vehicles.

Offline initial_D

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 11:22:36 am »
Hub centric rings, don't leave home without them.  :)



 :) GD would know about that when he swap out his aftermarket wheels with OEMs.  :)

I left those rings on the first time I took off the after market wheels and put the OEM wheels with winter tires on. Vibrate like crazy ... car wasn't in driveable condition, took a couple of days to figure out ...  :)

Offline nan_wpg

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2007, 08:13:55 pm »
Wife's car Mazda RX8, mine, Nissan Xterra. Both with aftermarket winter rims, NOT hubcentric, and I have never used the rings.

Just make sure you tighten the lug nuts before you lower your car to ensure your wheels are "lug centric".

No problems whatsoever.

If your wheels came with the rings then by all means use them. If they didnt come with , or are not available, don't sweat it.



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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2007, 12:03:11 am »
That's dependent on your lug nuts.  Some cars are both hub- and lug-centric, some are hub-centric, and some are lug-centric.  Most cars I've seen are both.

You do bring up a nice point.  It's always good practice to torque down your lug nuts on an unloaded wheel.  On wheels over disc brakes I'll put a brick over the brake pedal and torque down the wheels that way.  With drums, applying the brakes might cause the drum to unseat, so I lower the car just enough so the wheels are touching the ground, but aren't loaded.  The friction plus my hand holding the tire is enough to torque to 100 ft-lbs.



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Offline morty

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2007, 02:24:05 pm »
The car is not hub-centric. It is the wheel that is hub-centric. This is very important as it means the wheel is centred on the hub. Trying to get a non-hub-centric wheel centred on the hub is very difficult. When the wheel is not centred it causes vibrations that can damage the tires as well as other suspension components. Not to mention being annoying. Typically rings cost $25. Small investment to avoid a costly and annoying vibration issue.

Lug-centric means the wheel is centred on the studs. Studs are often not perfectly centred and this has caused many a complaint. Use hub-rings. We include them with every wheel we sell because they are IMPORTANT.

Offline nan_wpg

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2007, 08:37:30 pm »
I dont find it difficult at all. Put the wheel on, tighten before lowering, and viola, perfectly lug centric wheels.

Maybe I got lucky? Who knows. I don't think it would be worthwhile to get the rings if I am not having problems.

How expensive are they?

Offline tpl

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2007, 09:19:16 pm »
Even with hub centric wheels I wiggle them with the bolts half tight to ensure that the taper on the bolt head is central on the wheel.

Offline nan_wpg

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 08:13:52 pm »
I understood from my Wheel supplier that wheels are either hub centric, or they are lug centric. He said aftermarkets are lug centric so that they can fit more vehicles.

Lug centric wheels just need to be tightened before you lower the car. If you use the rings you are converting the lug centric wheel to a hub centric one.

What came first, egg or chicken?

Does it really matter?

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2007, 12:29:15 am »
I understood from my Wheel supplier that wheels are either hub centric, or they are lug centric. He said aftermarkets are lug centric so that they can fit more vehicles.

Lug centric wheels just need to be tightened before you lower the car. If you use the rings you are converting the lug centric wheel to a hub centric one.

What came first, egg or chicken?

Does it really matter?
Some Toyota's came stock with lug-centric wheels, although I'm not sure if the hub hardware is still there to fit a hub-centric wheel on.  That's what I meant when I said the car itself may be lug- or hub-centric.  It's possible that some cars have hubs without a lip for centering a wheel.

If the wheel is sold/advertised as lug-centric, some manufacturers will skimp on QC and allow off-centre holes, which really messes up the cone-type balancers and you obviously can't convert it to hub-centric with a hub ring.  Personally, I would never buy lug-centric wheels.

Offline zq_frank

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2007, 04:08:52 pm »
My car had vibration problem after I changed brand new tires and rims. It made me mad last a few months, and I did what ever I can do to fix it. I even don't remember how many repair stores I tried already, how many wheel balance I did already, how much money and time I spent for this problem already. Another result is that I became the tire/wheel professional finally. The problem is the multi-fits rims.

from other people's replies, I can see there are really some professional people here. It was an obvious simple problem, I still don't understand why so many technicians, tire shops and even dealers, they can not see this problem. Here is the list of shops I have visited to try to fix this problem.
4 canadiantire stores
2 active green + ross
3 goodyear tire shops
2 toyota dealerships
3 independent car repair shops
Here are the problems they found:
Tire problems, rims problems, suspension problems, wheel balance problems. No matter they did, the viberation problem was as same as before.
finally I got the answer from the web search, and fixed it with the  hub centric rings and road force balance with GPS 9700. Am I in bad luck? Or they all should be fired?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 04:11:28 pm by zq_frank »

Offline mar1990

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Re: multi-fits rim cause vibration problem
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2007, 09:37:18 pm »
I will hazard a guess and say most shops just want to replace parts and get the car out as quick as possible.  They looked at the individual pieces, but not as a whole (eg rims, wheel balance, tires).  Then again hindsight is 20/20.

Is the multifit rim a relatively new phenomena?