Topic: CD Article: 2008 BMW 5-Series

[JSCC]

IMO comparing the Passat with BMW 5 series is worse than comparing Camry SE with Passat.

I know and I agree.
But I'm not in charge of marketing.

How about "90% of Audi/BMW/MB engineering for 60% of the price", good tag line?

[auto_enthusiast]

Nice cars.

Given the recent VW television ads which pits a Passat against a 525i series, I'd be half-tempted to race against one of these ultimate driving machines.... 

Auto-enthusiast, have you tried the i-drive?  Don't let the car rags turn you off it before you try it.  It's really quite simple and only required for advanced settings that are rarely used...or used once initially.  All your simple every-day controls are still the same.  The i-drive we have on the 6 is superior to M-B's COMAND.

I agree with you on the manual vs. SMG.  I've read that there is some performance loss with the manual (which was taken from the previous 400 hp E39 M5).  The problem is that the M5 and M6 were designed around the SMG and BMW only put in the manual option because enthusiasts wanted to row their own.  I would probably try both transmission options before I purchased....but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't miss the SMG unless I was on a track...and if I was looking for a track car...I wouldn't buy an M5/M6.

"Handling limits drop significantly to the point of being similar to an econobox"   

This was from C&D's review when it tested the manual M5 vs the S6 and E63 AMG.   Grip was a mundane .83g's and lane change speed was 60.8 mph which shows how much the electronics were intervening on the handling (the SMG recorded .89g and 65.6 mph).

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12145/bmw-m5.html

It's good to hear that BMW is fixing the problem with the new models though.

[mehyar]

Some nice twisties in those driving videos. Anything like that near Toronto?

Automotive journalists get to have all the fun!

[airbalancer]

Some nice twisties in those driving videos. Anything like that near Toronto?

Automotive journalists get to have all the fun!

There is a twisty road by the Credit river I believe

[dave]

This was from C&D's review when it tested the manual M5 vs the S6 and E63 AMG.   Grip was a mundane .83g's and lane change speed was 60.8 mph which shows how much the electronics were intervening on the handling (the SMG recorded .89g and 65.6 mph).

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12145/bmw-m5.html

It's good to hear that BMW is fixing the problem with the new models though.

[/quote]

I've read the article in C&D, the TOP GEAR (30-50, 50-70) was really low compared to the S6 and E63, but the lane change speed and skidpad were pretty good compared to the others:

Lane Change (MPH)
S6 - 60.7
M5 - 60.8
E63 - 60.9

Skidpad
S6 - 0.87
M5 - 0.83
E63 - 0.82

So even with the manual, the M5 is still in the middle of this pack....and this packs handling limits are FAR from that of an "econobox" and hardly "mundane".

[Giant Dwarf]

Indeed... I still think back fondly to the 645Ci and how well it handled some of the twisties around here considering its large size.  The handling improvements of the M6 would make it a truly remarkable machine... and we haven't even begun talking about the whopping power increase.  I can't wait to experience it... even from the passenger seat! 

As others have said, my (VERY) limited exposure to i_drive was not all that horrible either.  Too many car-mag writers must be really old and techno-phobes.  What bothered me more was the turn-signal lever that doesn't "click" into place to signal a turn, and the fancy-pants electro-whiz-bang steering.  Bah!  Give me traditional, old BMW, properly-tuned steering (which I believe is the case with the M5 / 6, no?)

Jim1957, as the others have said, welcome aboard and please, any pics you can post of your fleet would be most welcome!  (especially the 328 GTS -- one of my all-time favs).

Speaking of commercials, I've seen some now where Hyundai is also picking on the 525i as being quicker too..  At least the Sonata V6 is actually a reasonably quick car (certainly able to beat the pants off a Passat 2.0T, I'd wager...      ).

SNowman, if you get upset when you can't pull less than 5 seconds, you must be very surly when driving your truck or your wife's car.   

[ovr50]

"SNowman, if you get upset when you can't pull less than 5 seconds, you must be very surly when driving your truck or your wife's car.   "

Shucks, Snowy is surly all the time..............

[mdxtasy]

"SNowman, if you get upset when you can't pull less than 5 seconds, you must be very surly when driving your truck or your wife's car.   "

Shucks, Snowy is surly all the time..............

That's probably because he can't stop farting.   

[dave]

I agree GD, the active steering is just plain weird.  I'm sure I would get used to it if it was the only car I was driving...but switching back and forth would give me a headache.

GD, count down to August and test drives is on...

tick-tock, tick-tock, etc.

[jim1957]

Indeed... I still think back fondly to the 645Ci and how well it handled some of the twisties around here considering its large size.  The handling improvements of the M6 would make it a truly remarkable machine... and we haven't even begun talking about the whopping power increase.  I can't wait to experience it... even from the passenger seat! 

As others have said, my (VERY) limited exposure to i_drive was not all that horrible either.  Too many car-mag writers must be really old and techno-phobes.  What bothered me more was the turn-signal lever that doesn't "click" into place to signal a turn, and the fancy-pants electro-whiz-bang steering.  Bah!  Give me traditional, old BMW, properly-tuned steering (which I believe is the case with the M5 / 6, no?)

Jim1957, as the others have said, welcome aboard and please, any pics you can post of your fleet would be most welcome!  (especially the 328 GTS -- one of my all-time favs).

Speaking of commercials, I've seen some now where Hyundai is also picking on the 525i as being quicker too..  At least the Sonata V6 is actually a reasonably quick car (certainly able to beat the pants off a Passat 2.0T, I'd wager...      ).

SNowman, if you get upset when you can't pull less than 5 seconds, you must be very surly when driving your truck or your wife's car.   

The M5 doesn't have the "active steering" - not an option either - it is apparently something different entirely.  The turn signal option of leaving it on for three seconds etc. is actually a programmable feature - it can be turned off to function normally although you get used to it quite fast and then miss it on the other cars!

I have tried attaching pictures of the M5 taken with a cell phone - sorry for the quality - also attached is a picture of the 1988 328GTS which is indeed a fun little car - 30,000 km on it - Euro Spec. If the pictures don't show up it will likely be because I don't have enough posts yet!

[initial_D]

Love the Ferrari 328. Thanks for the pic, Jim1957.

[mdxtasy]

Simply awesome......thanks for sharing.  I know you must be enjoying the nice stable of rides.

[auto_enthusiast]

I've read the article in C&D, the TOP GEAR (30-50, 50-70) was really low compared to the S6 and E63, but the lane change speed and skidpad were pretty good compared to the others:

Lane Change (MPH)
S6 - 60.7
M5 - 60.8
E63 - 60.9

Skidpad
S6 - 0.87
M5 - 0.83
E63 - 0.82

So even with the manual, the M5 is still in the middle of this pack....and this packs handling limits are FAR from that of an "econobox" and hardly "mundane".

_______________________________________

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/download/0612_SensibleShoes_Handling.pdf

If you set up a circle of to C&D's diameter, a Mazda 3 will beat a manual M5 around that circle.  If you set up cones at an equal intervals, the Mazda 3 will also weave through those cones significantly faster (as would most of the other cars in that test).  All of these cars are on all-season tires as well, not ultra high performance tires like the M5.

I know that skidpad grip and slalom speeds are not the be all to end all of automotive handling, far from it.   There are a ton of other intangibles that make the M5 a far superior car.  That's not my argument though - I'm by no means saying that the econoboxes are better cars, or even better handling cars.  However, I am sayin that those slalom speeds and skidpad numbers for the manual M5 are nothing special given the electronic computer intervention.  And more importantly, that those limits have dropped significantly from the otherwise identical SMG equipped M5.