Author Topic: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line  (Read 5801 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« on: February 20, 2007, 11:00:01 pm »
You may discuss our cover story of the day in this thread....
Test Drive:
2007 Saturn Vue Green Line

2007 Saturn Vue Green LineWith temperatures rarely above minus 10 degrees in Ottawa, the new Saturn Vue Green Line gas-electric hybrid SUV didn't come anywhere near its official fuel economy figures, reports Contributing Editor Chris Chase.  However, its fuel economy was still better than other SUVs in winter driving, and at $29,060 the Vue Green Line is the most affordable hybrid SUV on the market, he says. Second Opinion by Bob McHugh.  
   More...


Offline airbalancer

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 07:52:56 am »
I was surprised to read that Bob McHugh does not write what his l/100km was, Since he was in warmer climate
I wonder if they should have a electric blanket warmer for the battery like a block heater since battery efficient is bad when they are cold

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 08:56:12 am »
I'm not sold on hybrid technology although, admittedly, the concept is now well-tested. But: complex, bi-mode power source; enviro concerns re. battery disposal; complex drive train.

MB makes a good point in its new 3.2 CRD ads: hybrid economy without the complexity. This Saturn could easily accomodate one of GM's Euro clean-diesels, and increase manufacturing efficiencies/decrease production costs.

Offline jww

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 09:30:41 am »
Hyrids, imo, are really about choice and whether or not you feel the need to be seen as environmentally responsible. The technology is still far too expensive to make them a real alternative for the masses yet. Fuel alternatives like hyrdogen, bio-diesel and the like, are other options not fully explored (or exploited) yet - and once they become available we may find the entire environmentally friendly motorist going a different direction.

I wonder if I could hook up a hybrid to my house if the power went out  ???
JWW

Offline G35X

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 04:40:01 pm »
>Here, excitement is derived from the satisfaction of knowing you're not entirely dependent on fossil fuels...

Wrong! You are entirely dependent on fossil fuels, unless of course your hybrid car has capability of charging its batteries with the juice from solar, hydro, nuclear or wind power plant. You cannot get something from nothing.  All the current hybrid cars' batteries are charged when coasting and braking, (or when the engine is charging the batteries and driving wheels at the same time).  You have to step on the gas pedal before coasting.

Offline CptCanuck

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 06:44:15 pm »
I was suprised to see the l/100km were so high.  Chris stated he got 12l/100km which is the average I've been getting in my 2007 FWD 3.3L Santa Fe.  Even during the cold snap we had in Toronto (and my other location in Midland) the worst mileage I received was 14.3l/100km.  Hopefully the cause was due to the hybrid system not fully kicking in in the extreme cold.  If that's not the case then maybe this isn't the direction to take with hybrid technology.

Offline chrischasescars

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 10:41:51 pm »
I was suprised to see the l/100km were so high.  Chris stated he got 12l/100km which is the average I've been getting in my 2007 FWD 3.3L Santa Fe.  Even during the cold snap we had in Toronto (and my other location in Midland) the worst mileage I received was 14.3l/100km.  Hopefully the cause was due to the hybrid system not fully kicking in in the extreme cold.  If that's not the case then maybe this isn't the direction to take with hybrid technology.

That's what I figure the reason for the high consumption is. Like I said in the article, the car would only shut off at red lights after I'd been using the car around town for two or three hours.

We might try to get another Green Line here in the summer to see how it does in warmer weather.
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Offline airbalancer

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2007, 05:51:13 am »
I was suprised to see the l/100km were so high.  Chris stated he got 12l/100km which is the average I've been getting in my 2007 FWD 3.3L Santa Fe.  Even during the cold snap we had in Toronto (and my other location in Midland) the worst mileage I received was 14.3l/100km.  Hopefully the cause was due to the hybrid system not fully kicking in in the extreme cold.  If that's not the case then maybe this isn't the direction to take with hybrid technology.

That's what I figure the reason for the high consumption is. Like I said in the article, the car would only shut off at red lights after I'd been using the car around town for two or three hours.

We might try to get another Green Line here in the summer to see how it does in warmer weather.

Have you talk with anyone with GM engineering  about the high consumption?

Offline quadzilla

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2007, 07:26:07 am »
Found this on Edmunds. (30mpg (US) is approx 7.5 L/100)

Quote
9 Weeks of ownership - 3660 Miles - 10 Fillups - Avg 29.75 mpg. Hybrid is driven about 90 miles to and from work each day with a combination of 50% highway and 50% stop and go. Best mpg 34.5 and worst 25.0
 
Here are the 10 fillups - 29.75, 30.20, 31.14, 30.90, 25.04, 34.54, 25.73, 31.06, 29.69, 32.16

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0fc2bb

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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 12:21:32 pm »
If you don't live in the city or drive in traffic, it doesn't make much sense. Hybrids are not effective in saving fuel as highway runners.
AQUAMAN64 also posts on BDFD.com!

Offline H-IMA

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2007, 09:33:10 pm »
...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 08:28:22 am by H-IMA »

Offline G35X

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 05:31:43 pm »
Hi, I-IMA!

Thank you for directing us to the interesting sites.  The fact the 400h averages 25mpg(U.S.) is in itself amazing.  Just imagine saving total gas consumption by 10 percent in the entire world to-day without forcing drivers switch to smaller vehicles.  It is very possible technically.

Why hybrids show better mileage even during highway driving compared to similar gas only automobiles in spite of the fact that they have to carry around heavy batteries?   Before getting the answers, we have to know the following fact:

When cruising at a highway speed, automobiles require only a fraction of horsepower their engines are capable of.  This means you are driving with the gas pedal halfway to the metal feeding a small amount of air and fuel.

100HP, 150HP, 200HP or even 300HP of power is needed when starting, passing, going uphill, towing a trailer or speeding flat out.  Now, how do you get this, in many cases sudden, requirement of more power?  In the case with gas engine automobiles you step on it to burn more gas.

In the case with most hybrid automobiles the electric motor provides this additional power requirement, at least partially.  This means in a hybrid automobile you can have a gas engine specs of which are tailored with this electric motor assistance in mind.

Therefore,
1.   Honda uses cylinder deactivation when cruising at a highway speed.
2.   Both Honda and Toyota use high-efficiency Atkins cycle engine, which in effect has displacement smaller than it looks by making the effective compression stroke shorter than the expansion stroke, thus allowing the hot, expanding gas inside the cylinder to do more work.

Smaller displacement means the gas engine must work harder even when cruising, requiring wider opening of throttle valve, which in turn reduces pumping loss making the engine more efficient.  Also, a good portion of power stored in the electric motor batteries comes from the energy recovered when coasting and braking, which ordinary gas engine automobiles simply throw away.

If you can do away with the throttle valve (butterfly valve) altogether, the gas engine would become more efficient.  Easiest way to accomplish this is the lean burn design.  But the cat converter does not like unused oxygen in the exhaust gas.  So, it looks like the best approach is to control opening and closing timing of the intake valves according to the gas pedal position and movement, thus accomplishing reduction of pumping loss and at the same time changing of effective length of compression stroke.  From this standpoint BMW’s Valvetronics technology looks very promising.  Now, when will BMW bring out its own version of hybrid?



Offline airbalancer

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2007, 07:17:16 pm »
Really the Vue is not bad to according to Fuel Consumption Ratings

Make/Model Class Eng Size/
# Cyl Trans #gears Fuel Consumption Rank
Type                                                             $/yr          L/yr                 mi./gal.      Class All CO2
                                                                                                           City Hwy
FORD ESCAPE HEV SP 2.3 / 4 V E X                        $1188  1320               44  41         1 8 3168
FORD ESCAPE HEV 4X4 SP 2.3 / 4 V E X                 $1332 1480                 39  38         2 28 3552
LEXUS RX 400H AWD SP 3.3 / 6 V X                      $1422 1580                 37  34          4 65 3792
SATURN VUE HYBRID SP 2.4 / 4 E4E X                   $1422 1580                 32  42          3 58 3792
TOYOTA HIGHLANDER HYBRID AWD SP 3.3 / 6 V X $1422 1580                  37  34          4 65 3792

Offline chrischasescars

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2007, 10:03:13 pm »
I think we should turn the site into a VW and hybrid vehicle site. Think of the all the hits the forum would get then!

(as in, nothing sparks an animated debate like a review of a VW or a hybrid anything)

Offline H-IMA

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2007, 11:57:34 pm »
...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 08:28:38 am by H-IMA »

Offline airbalancer

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 06:21:33 am »
I think we should turn the site into a VW and hybrid vehicle site. Think of the all the hits the forum would get then!

(as in, nothing sparks an animated debate like a review of a VW or a hybrid anything)

Maybe a new sub section?

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2007, 10:40:00 am »
If you don't live in the city or drive in traffic, it doesn't make much sense. Hybrids are not effective in saving fuel as highway runners.


I still can't believe it.   ::)

Eight years after the introduction of Hybrid vehicles in North America and there are still people uttering such remarks.

You clearly don't own a hybrid vehicle so you will mindlessly roll-up all hybrid technology into one large bucket of perpetual mis-information.

I should tell you I drove a Toyota Prius (albeit first generation) for 4 weeks. No doubt they save fuel, but at the price premium the vehicle commands (which is shrinking) along with the battery issue (and space it consumes) I don't think it a worthwhile trade-off. This is changing as the hybrid units get more compact, and the price ladder reduced.

Of course, hybrid use a lot of precious metals and materials (20-50lbso of it per vehicle) which are cost prohibitive and difficult to source, and could be put to positive use elsewhere.

I'm not going to argue the benefits of hybrids. But in my opinion versus 'ordinary' fuel efficient cars, they are best used in urban areas. The low hp is suitable for the city, and the tailpipe emissions are very low, and the electric-only mode makes a tonne of sense, and generally the design is focused around increasing fuel efficiency. However, ordinary cars could adopt some of the strategies and technologies used in hybrids: more LED lighting, streamlined design, start-stop, regen braking, small turbos on smaller engines, etc.

I don't look down on hybrids, and do think they're green, but also don't think they're the only way to go. Very much depends on the hybrid in question and the application for its use.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 10:47:05 am by sirAQUAMAN64 »

Offline Snowman

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2007, 10:47:13 am »
Regardless of the higher purchase costs I would like to see a comparison of the extra energy it requires to produce the specific components vs. the equivalent measurement in lower fuel conception over a 5 year period. I am not convinced there are any real gains for the environment.

Offline H-IMA

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2007, 02:13:56 pm »
...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 08:28:51 am by H-IMA »

Offline Snowman

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Re: CD Article: 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2007, 03:16:42 pm »
Regardless of the higher purchase costs I would like to see a comparison of the extra energy it requires to produce the specific components vs. the equivalent measurement in lower fuel conception over a 5 year period. I am not convinced there are any real gains for the environment.

Well, there is no shortage of analysis and comparisons if you care to search.
-You can start with the studies commissioned by provincial government before they added hybrids to their fleets (BC and Manitoba at least).
-You can check with NRCan.  They maintain some pretty comprehensive info on this too.
-You can check with www.fueleconomy.gov

...Or you can even do a web search and get the following (which offers the info you are asking for with a few more clicks):
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-...e2SAV1JNIF?s=1

or here:
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-article_144/;_ylt=AgyploRi0DnrnnGMwW1bVXB1JNIF

Anyway, this horse of an issue has been beaten at "nauseum".  So it should be VERY easy to get this info.

Cheers;

M


 ??? The original question was:
I would like to see a comparison of the extra energy it requires to produce the specific components vs. the equivalent measurement in lower fuel conception over a 5 year period.

I mine hard rock, not data. You made the statements, please provide the backup.

I have yet to see this information available anywhere. How does one convert vehicle “green” ratings for manufacturing a hybrid vs. conventional propulsion into energy usage? Then compare that rating or "unit" to the improved l/100 km reduction in pollution.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2007, 03:20:11 pm by Snowman »