CD Article: Steering you right: Punishing the innocent

[AdamYYZ]

I really get worked up when I read or hear about anybody defending insurance companies. This article is no different. My personal opinion on the matter is that we shouldn't be punished for not-at-fault claims. I am a seven star driver, 26 years old (The maximum possible for my age bracket) and I have 2 not-at-fault claims on my record. I was rear ended twice in the past few years. Even though I have a perfect driving history my rates are still through the roof. I pay nearly 3,000 a year for my Honda Civic. I pay this much because the insurance company takes a calculated risk based on all young male Honda civic coupe drivers. THIS I am willing to accept. However in my opinion, as long as I keep making not-at-fault claims I should continue to pay this baseline insurance premium based on their risk figures of my age/sex/vehicle group. These are random incidents that I have no control over. The insurance company has no way to predict if, when or how it might happen again. Thats basically all I have to say on that topic. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

While I'm on the subject, here are two tidbits about my relationship with my insurance company:

- In 2002 when I was deciding on what car to buy, my insurance company quoted me $250 a month for the Civic. I bought the car and bought the policy. Two weeks later I got a notice of adjustment to the tune of $1200 a year increase.

- In 2004 I moved from my suburban home in Brampton to an apartment in the Allen & Eglinton area of Toronto. My insurance DOUBLED. My monthly premium was more than my loan payment and fuel combined. I ended up moving back to the same neighborhood in Brampton but my insurance only went down by about 40%


Insurance companies are monsters. I just cant imagine anybody taking their side! Especially when they cry poor meanwhile they are making record breaking profits in the billions. ARGH!

[tpl]

I wondered about commenting on that article.

"But since an insurance contract is a private contract between two consenting parties, the parties may set their own rules and decide whether or not they wish to enter into the contract. "

He is dead wrong on this. Car insurance in Ontario is NOT  a private contract. It is a highly regulated oligopoly and one party, that is you and I, have no choice but to take the other parties offer.

REAL private insurance would refuse ALL insurance to some drivers. Not permitted in Ontario as the Facility association MUST provide coverage.
REAL private insurance would adjust all parts of the coverage rate to reflect the experience/skill/whatever of the driver.  Which would mean that some young males would be refused insurance  or quoted very high rates while their sisters got a good rate based on actuarial principles NOT political correctness.
Real private insurance would probably have some Insce companies offering special rates to people who had qualified to drive in jurisdictions that have proper driving tests even if they had only been in Canada 1 week.
Real private insurance would have some companies staying with at-fault insurance... and probably being able to offer better rates.

Given that Insurance companies are private companies and are answerable to their shareholders, it is the governemnt and Human rights commissions who are really to blame.

[The Fuzz]

Here's my favourite part about insurance.

-You are required to have insurance
-You pay for insurance
-If you need to use the insurance you already paid for they charge you to use it (deductible)
-If you do use it, they charge you more because you used it. Even though you paid for it. Twice already.

Figure this. A guy my age (34), driving since he was 16 has probably paid around $36,000 in insurance rates (average of $2000/year). If they're smart they've invested that money and made a small fortune. You'd think that allowing me to claim $5 or $10 thousand in damages or so without screwing me over would be fair.

[AVToller]

That sounds good until you consider the possibility of one of those multi-million dollar claims that COULD occur at any time. Please forgive me, but I have a hard time resisting seeing multiple sides to any argument. I think your insurance system is particularly barbaric. ICBC isn't too bad, in my experience, but Ontario insurance seems to be a form of organized crime from what I'm reading. 

[safristi]

A recent TV news gave BC as the HIGHEST COST PROVINCE...something around $1,400 per person( My B_I_Law was always boasting about BC rates!!!)...

   Onatario was Second  around $1,200 Per Person....

 PEI was cheapest D'oh........$800...........so lets all move ta SPUD_LAND ..

  Wot pizzez me orff is the rates go up even tho I haven't made a claim ,im gettin OLDER and the Car is worth half it was 5 years ago......they should allow us to buy insurance from some Indian Companies OR wherever it is REAL CHEAP.....glowballsisation rules....

[ovr50]

A recent TV news gave BC as the HIGHEST COST PROVINCE...something around $1,400 per person( My B_I_Law was always boasting about BC rates!!!)...

   Onatario was Second  around $1,200 Per Person....

 PEI was cheapest D'oh........$800...........so lets all move ta SPUD_LAND ..

  Wot pizzez me orff is the rates go up even tho I haven't made a claim ,im gettin OLDER and the Car is worth half it was 5 years ago......they should allow us to buy insurance from some Indian Companies OR wherever it is REAL CHEAP.....glowballsisation rules....

I'm not saying it is not correct at that average, but please consider the source of this announcement - IIRC it was a right-wing political think-tank. They do have an agenda which (for the most part) I agree with, but still, one has to consider the source. My guess a study by a left-leaning organization would arrive at different results. It's the old stats can be made to say anything situation.

One thing that BC ICBC does do is cover younger drivers with good records (like my son) for far less than he would pay in (say) AB or likely ON. This is part of your "average" - private cos' refuse to cover certain demographics.

[Leviathan]

One thing that BC ICBC does do is cover younger drivers with good records (like my son) for far less than he would pay in (say) AB or likely ON. This is part of your "average" - private cos' refuse to cover certain demographics.

Having bought & insured cars in BC and AB I've got to admit that I like the ICBC way. In AB I had to spend a lot of time phoning insurance companies to try to find the best rate and they did vary quite a bit. Never was sure if I was screwed or not  With ICBC there is basically one price and you know the extent of how you're being screwed  .

Besides, in BC you buy the car and an autoplan agent comes to you all registration/insurance BS is done right there - just drive home & enjoy your car. AB was something ridiculous like try to find right insurance co, make the car deal, go to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait, go to your insurer with whatever paper work, wait, go back to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait then finally drive the beast home. Hours of fun.

[UmroAyyar]

One thing that BC ICBC does do is cover younger drivers with good records (like my son) for far less than he would pay in (say) AB or likely ON. This is part of your "average" - private cos' refuse to cover certain demographics.

Having bought & insured cars in BC and AB I've got to admit that I like the ICBC way. In AB I had to spend a lot of time phoning insurance companies to try to find the best rate and they did vary quite a bit. Never was sure if I was screwed or not  With ICBC there is basically one price and you know the extent of how you're being screwed  .

Besides, in BC you buy the car and an autoplan agent comes to you all registration/insurance BS is done right there - just drive home & enjoy your car. AB was something ridiculous like try to find right insurance co, make the car deal, go to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait, go to your insurer with whatever paper work, wait, go back to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait then finally drive the beast home. Hours of fun.

Bought two cars in Ontario, never had to do that. First time, I bought the car the day I walked in and wanted to take the car, they ran people around and got it done.

Second time, dealership did it as well, I wasn't in a hurry this time.

I guess if I bought my cars privately, I'd be running around doing the same thing.

[Cord]

Besides, in BC you buy the car and an autoplan agent comes to you all registration/insurance BS is done right there - just drive home & enjoy your car. AB was something ridiculous like try to find right insurance co, make the car deal, go to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait, go to your insurer with whatever paper work, wait, go back to the department of motor vehicles, take a number, wait, wait then finally drive the beast home. Hours of fun.

Department of Motor Vehicles hasn't existed in Alberta for years. Private registry offices are now on every corner. Just like liquor stores.

[Arthur Dent]

the privately run registeries are reasonably fast - lightning fast compared to the old gov't agency. Its got at least 15 years since they went private. I'm waiting for my insurance company to complain when I change cars again - they still haven't got my insurance slip for the Escort I sold sent out yet. 

[ovr50]

Going back and reading the article behind this thread, the fellow with the 3 no-fault accidents was complaining (and if fact left the ins co over it) about his insurance going from $1750/yr to $2001/year. That is an increase of 14.2%, and assuming that rate would hold for another year or so, I don't find that all that unreasonable. He was hit 3 times, each time the ins co paid out, and although he was not at fault, just unlucky, he did get the benefit of having the insurance in place, Paying an extra $251 a year doesn't seem that bad to me. I doubt I would have made the fuss over it that he did. 

Another example would be when the wildfires raged thru Kelowna here, our house was not burnt, but the ins co did spend about $28,000 on it (mainly a new roof). When my premium came due the following Spring, I expected not to be renewed as I live in a forest/urban interface area, but not only was it renewed, the premium was up only about $300/yr. I considered that a bargain. 

[safristi]

"Forest Urban interface???"...does that make U a FURBEE....   didn't they pay fer some dry cleaning ta take tha soot off yer suit???

[tpl]

yes Ovr, I thought that the example given was poor... and therefore did not consider it in my rant !

[ghost]

As a former resident of beautiful Ontario now living in Whine Province, I tell ya, ICBC is no better than my previous State Farm. In fact I believe i had better rates back in Ontario because I get major discount by having the home and auto insurance under SF. My agent was also excellent and she knows the ins and outs of insurance. Whereas with ICBC's autoplan, you have to walk into a storefront which can be convenient. But never been a problem as my SF agent fax and mail me stuff anyways.
With Autoplan, I'd have take a gamble whether the agent is a veteran or some low wage fella killing time while waiting for a better job.

[Snowman]

As a former resident of beautiful Ontario now living in Whine Province, I tell ya, ICBC is no better than my previous State Farm. In fact I believe i had better rates back in Ontario because I get major discount by having the home and auto insurance under SF. My agent was also excellent and she knows the ins and outs of insurance. Whereas with ICBC's autoplan, you have to walk into a storefront which can be convenient. But never been a problem as my SF agent fax and mail me stuff anyways.
With Autoplan, I'd have take a gamble whether the agent is a veteran or some low wage fella killing time while waiting for a better job.

Agreed, I much prefer working with an insurance broker in Ontario then the “I don’t give a fack about you” public sector attitude I got when I was in Manitoba and Saskatchewan.