Topic: Which company do you think has a better chance of long-term survival?

[Mitlov]

I see these two companies as being in very similar positions.  Both were European marques praised for their character but bashed for their reliability.  Both have been bought up by the Big Three.  Both have proven to be absolute money-pits, and have relatively stagnant model lines.  Both offered a new model in 2006, which can either be seen as the beginning of a resurgence, or the last failed chance to save the company (the XK, and the 9-3 turbo V6 SportCombi).  Neither really have anything valuable, besides history, to offer if Ford/GM tries to sell them.

Frankly, both companies face a very real threat of going the way of Oldsmobile.  Which do you think is more likely to survive, and why?

[1TSX]

Thats a tough one... i am undecided.

[JSCC]

I say Jaguar becuase Jeremy Clarkson is a pretty strong promoter of Jaguar, and he'll use his influence to twist people to buy into the brand.

[Mitlov]

I voted Saab, though I think it's a close one.  Ford seems to still be pouring R&D money into Jaguar (XK, XK, CXF concept, etc), while Saab's last hurrah was more of a new flavor of an existing model.  On the other hand, Jaguar is competing in the brutally-competitive RWD luxury market, against BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, and Cadillac.  Saab faces much less cut-throat competition in the near-luxury market against Volvo, Acura, and increasingly VW.

[gottarondo]

My heart says Saab, because I drove a 900 (2 actually) for many years and absolutely totally loved the cars despite the cost of keeping them going (your mechanic just has to be part of the family), but my head says Jaguar.  I think the weight of Jaguar's history is greater than Saab's, at least from what I know of both, and if it is structured as an either-or situation, Jaguar may have more forward momentum. 

But on the other hand, if going more mainstream is the key to survival, Saab may be more able to do that credibly.  I saw a Jaguar station wagon in the parking lot at Home Depot this summer.  It was so similar to our Suzuki Esteem wagon, which I was driving at the time (even the same colour) that I thought for a second that someone had just put a jaguar hood ornament on a Suzuki as a joke.  A marque like that as a station wagon... or any sort of car you'd use for a normal life - it would be like driving an oxymoron.  I'm not sure I could do it (OK if someone GAVE me one...!)

[Snowman]

I don’t think either one will make it on their own. However the recent infusions may extend life until more investment is needed. The automotive market is saturated with manufactures and capacity with better offerings right now. If I would pick only one it would be Saab.

[tpl]

I voted for SAAB  ( I owned a 99 and a 900 turbo many years ago)   

[UmroAyyar]

I want to vote Saab, but voted Jaguar.

Ford has injected a LOT of money in Jaguar and their projections are getting better (losing less money). They seem very confident to let Aston Martin go and keeping Jaguar, more exciting product is lined up. Ford will have to ditch it at very bad terms if they discard it now.

I think it will go the same way as Aston Martin, make a little profit, then sell it at a reasonable price. Lot of takers for the luxury marque.

[dr_spock]

I would more likely buy a Saab than a Jaguar in the future.

[mdxtasy]

Both are living in the gutter of the auto world.  Dismal sales, no real winner in product offerings, and a lost badge that seems to be upstaged by every other competitor in their segment.  To battle MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi etc....Jag has to come to bat with something spectacular.  However, if they choose to go down a bracket and play in the near lux market (basically re-branding themselves), I say they have a shot at Acura, Volvo etc.  They'd have to improve their reliability though.  If Saab wants to play in the field, they need the market to love wagons.  This might come true based on some market trends.  They are unknown in the world of near lux.  Too many big players and the Saab name goes nowhere.  Jag has Jag...it's got history.  People know Jag.  It might be easier to re-brand it vs. Saab.

I like Saab, but I say Jag may be easier to turn into something different.

[initial_D]

No Money in the bank, still hard part is deciding.

[safristi]

..Saaguar....anyone.......Take my Wife...please.......she loves Jags ..

[Trainman]

Both are living in the gutter of the auto world.  Dismal sales, no real winner in product offerings, and a lost badge that seems to be upstaged by every other competitor in their segment.  To battle MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi etc....Jag has to come to bat with something spectacular.  However, if they choose to go down a bracket and play in the near lux market (basically re-branding themselves), I say they have a shot at Acura, Volvo etc.  They'd have to improve their reliability though.  If Saab wants to play in the field, they need the market to love wagons.  This might come true based on some market trends.  They are unknown in the world of near lux.  Too many big players and the Saab name goes nowhere.  Jag has Jag...it's got history.  People know Jag.  It might be easier to re-brand it vs. Saab.

I like Saab, but I say Jag may be easier to turn into something different.

I agree with MdX5, Jag needs to get back to its roots as a near luxury/sporty brand, as they were in the 50's and 60's.  That is what I think of when I hear Jaguar, the XK's, E Types, Mark X, S-Type and early XJ's; not current BMW, MB, Lexus, Audi etc competitor.  They were reasonably priced and provided fun driving experiences = good value.  They are no longer that.

As for Saab, not sure.  With little history other than being "that quirky other Swedish car" going for it in NA, how can you build on that?  It would almost be like introducing a entirely new car line.

I vote Jaguar.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I think Jaguar has the most history, significance, brand awareness, and upper crust cachet. When I say "Jaguar" I think of the green exterior, creamy interior with lots of wood, some Brit or artist, cat's reflexes and big engine, perhaps racing history, the original XK... when I think "Saab" I think of the quirky bathtub round-windshield 900 or hatchback 9000, which was unique but not exactly luxurious to my eye.

Saab has lost much of its history, funds, and lately Scandinavians have not been key in the design studio, unlike Ford which has infused cash into Volvo and let it do its wonderful thing. Ford has also let Jaguar produce cars like the XJ which really are great vehicles, unfortunately undervalued and overlooked presently.

However, I think GM is more committed to turning around Saab in the future with baby steps, whereas Ford has sunk so much money into Jaguar without return that they are looking for a way out - from anyone, to put toward their more mainstream brands.

With or without Ford, I voted Jaguar.

[Mitlov]

I agree with MdX5, Jag needs to get back to its roots as a near luxury/sporty brand, as they were in the 50's and 60's.  That is what I think of when I hear Jaguar, the XK's, E Types, Mark X, S-Type and early XJ's; not current BMW, MB, Lexus, Audi etc competitor.  They were reasonably priced and provided fun driving experiences = good value.  They are no longer that.

As for Saab, not sure.  With little history other than being "that quirky other Swedish car" going for it in NA, how can you build on that?  It would almost be like introducing a entirely new car line.

I vote Jaguar.

Not being a classic car buff, I hadn't realized that Jaguar used to be near-luxury, not high-end luxury.  It might be in their best interest to get back to that.  The near-luxury market isn't as cut-throat as the higher-end luxury market, and currently there aren't any near-luxury RWD cars out there.  The only downside would be that Ford would have two near-luxury brands which might compete against each other.  But I think they could distinguish themselves.  Volvo could offer sedans and wagons, turbocharged, FWD or AWD; Jaguar could offer coupes, convertibles, and very-sporty sport sedans, RWD.

[gta_driver]

Saab had a year-over-year sales increase of 5.4% and sold a record number of vehicles worldwide.

see press release:
http://www.saabusa.com/saabjsp/about/pr_070103.jsp

Helped contribute to GM Europe's overall profit.

According to one of the recent issues of a car magazine ( I think ""Automobile") GM is set to push Saab in Asia (mostly China) and in the middle east.

It currently is in better shape then Jaguar with some new product in the pipeline.

[Trainman]

I agree with MdX5, Jag needs to get back to its roots as a near luxury/sporty brand, as they were in the 50's and 60's.  That is what I think of when I hear Jaguar, the XK's, E Types, Mark X, S-Type and early XJ's; not current BMW, MB, Lexus, Audi etc competitor.  They were reasonably priced and provided fun driving experiences = good value.  They are no longer that.

As for Saab, not sure.  With little history other than being "that quirky other Swedish car" going for it in NA, how can you build on that?  It would almost be like introducing a entirely new car line.

I vote Jaguar.

Not being a classic car buff, I hadn't realized that Jaguar used to be near-luxury, not high-end luxury.  It might be in their best interest to get back to that.  The near-luxury market isn't as cut-throat as the higher-end luxury market, and currently there aren't any near-luxury RWD cars out there.  The only downside would be that Ford would have two near-luxury brands which might compete against each other.  But I think they could distinguish themselves.  Volvo could offer sedans and wagons, turbocharged, FWD or AWD; Jaguar could offer coupes, convertibles, and very-sporty sport sedans, RWD.

That would be a good way to go for Ford, work on the strengths of each, either real or perceived.  Jaguar should use their history in motor sports as a selling point, the book The Jaguar Tradition by Michael Frostick has some neat photos of Jaguar sedans doing quite well (they won the Touring Class of the Tour de France 5 years in a row, 59-63, according to the book).  Also they had a Mark II do 10,000 miles at an average speed of 106.58 mph and got 14 mpg while doing it.  And the sedans as well as the XK's were reasonably successful rally cars in their day.  Play to that aspect of Jaguar and it may find some new buyers for their cars.  Do not let the history get away.

[Bullet Blue]

What ever happened with the Saab Aero X concept? That was a hot looking concept IMO.

But other than that, there doesn't seem to be much going on at Saab. I thought the Sportcombi would've helped bump sales, but I don't think that's the case. I think of the most grave mistakes that Saab made was getting rid of the 3 and 5 door hatch. the 9000, 900 and 9-3 series were the essence of Saab along side it's quickiness. With the resurgence of hatches (at least in Europe and Canada) Saab could've really taken advantage.

The new Jag concepts coming out and Ford pumping more money into the brand would make me think that Jag has a better chance of survival.

I'd be sad to see either brand go.