Topic: GM wins at Detroit They #1

[Mr. Meow]

Then how did Honda(civic and ridgeline) win both awards last year?

Oh yer...Doh...forgot about that..
.

[articsteve]

  Same as digging out the heater core in any $40k+ sedan?

Same as digging out the heater core in any $40k+ sedan?

Way OVR your head dude.  The point is that GM parts are so cheaply made, as per their lowest bidder procurement policy, that they fail prematurely in relation to parts from the more successful auto companies.  You know, companies where market share increases year by year, decade by decade and not the REVERSE. 

[articsteve]

You hit it on the nose simplemind, the Aura is one of the nicest GM product in a long time, they deserve to win.  Also nice to see a GM pickup do well.  All this doesn't suddenly make me a GM loyal, but when credit is due then it is.

the Aura is one of the nicest GM product in a long time, they deserve to win.

Maybe the award would mean something if the participants actually drove the vehicles. 

http://www.canadiandriver.com/video/07saturn_aura_wmv.htm

"try again; not a home run"

[Bullet Blue]

Truth is, both the Aura and the Camry deserved to win. Both well excecuted sedans. Long terms reliability isn't a factor when deciding I believe, so all this talk about how the Aura will do down the road is kind of a moot point for this award.

[AVToller]

"Long terms reliability isn't a factor when deciding I believe"  That's ONE of the problems I've always had about COTY awards, and most car magazine reviews. I am moderately interested in the ultimate performance (including handling and braking) of new designs, but if they are better at breaking than braking, the COTYs are of no value to me. 

[Scaerio]

Most COTY's are joke.  In the past the Euroeans were especially good at choosing really dicey cars as the winners...

Simca Horizon, Fiat Tipo, Fiat Bravo/Brava...   It's only recently that some of the selection have had any credibility.

[safristi]

thank GOD G.M IS #1 AGAIN...............oOOH THEY ALREADY were...ok...LET'S MOVE ALONG HERE AND LOOK AT THE toyota olde navy AND aRMY ADVANCING...c'APN THEY ARE OVER THE hill BUTT i CAN SMELL THE NEW UPHOLSTERY..........

[articsteve]

Sorry Arctic you try again, this thread would not be where it is if your Camry would have won!  I drove 2 Camrys the same afternoon and their automatic shifts like crap and that's unacceptable from Toyota, the car is also not very exciting to drive, probably because I had just finished driving an Altima V6SE .   I otherwise like that car a lot.

I don't believe you drove either one.  You read that there were issues with both the 5spd and the 6spds and that gave you the opportunty to bash the Camry all the while promoting the Altima.  The 5 speed is basically a carry over from 06 and the only issue ppl were having is a lag or dead spot with the gas pedal.  It had nothing to do with the shifting.  The 5speed with the 4 banger shifts perfectly.  It's a beautiful engine/tranny combo.

This from Canadian Driver:  take note of these words "VERY SMOOTH"

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/07camry_le.htm

What surprised me about the four-cylinder Camry was how well it accelerated in highway passing, especially considering the size and weight of the Camry and its modest 158 horsepower. I chalk this up to its variable valve timing 'with intelligence' (VVT-i) which changes the valve timing at different engine speeds to improve torque and efficiency.


The five-speed automatic transmission is very smooth and is always looking for a higher gear to save fuel. To act as an engine brake, it shifts down automatically when going downhill, or when you put your foot on the brake. It will shift from fifth to fourth and even into third gear. In the 'D' position, the shift lever can be shifted manually to 4th gear by simply slapping it to the left: this is handy if you want to engage fourth for an uphill stretch.

 

[village]

  Same as digging out the heater core in any $40k+ sedan?

Same as digging out the heater core in any $40k+ sedan?

Way OVR your head dude.  The point is that GM parts are so cheaply made, as per their lowest bidder procurement policy, that they fail prematurely in relation to parts from the more successful auto companies.  You know, companies where market share increases year by year, decade by decade and not the REVERSE. 

Majority of companies operate on this model, the issue isn't going with the lowest bidder.  Now defining weak specifications that don't meet the standards of your rivals, that will get you into trouble.  Which admittingly the big 3 have been notorius for.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But it's still going to cost you abot the same on that heater core.  Free for the 5yrs/100000kms and then you sell. 

[articsteve]

Majority of companies operate on this model, the issue isn't going with the lowest bidder.  Now defining weak specifications that don't meet the standards of your rivals, that will get you into trouble.  Which admittingly the big 3 have been notorius for.  I guess we'll have to wait and see.

But it's still going to cost you abot the same on that heater core.  Free for the 5yrs/100000kms and then you sell. 

The example about the heater core is that from my experience heater cores in the domestics fail earlier than Euro and Japanese cars, but I haven't seen any heater core fail in less than 5 years in any car.  Usually starts in year 8.  The point is that the used car market knows what to avoid in older used cars and that effects used values.  Those CTS are fairly nice cars, but the hidden parts are no better quality than found in a Malibu.  Consequently, when that car reaches it's tenth year it becomes more problematic than a Japanese unit of similar level.

BTW, heater core would not be covered under the usual 5 year powertrain warranty.

[airbalancer]

The last car I had a heater core problem was a 72 Charger
Anyone else have heater core problems?

[AVToller]

The last car I had a heater core problem was a 72 Charger
Anyone else have heater core problems?

Let's see - 24 cars over 42 years, many of those cars quite old. Heater core problems - ZERO. 

[safristi]

"aura"...I'm gettin' a MIGRAINE.....listening ta U USED LOTTA VIRGINA.....wanta talk HOT..hows YER heater COR lookatta dials on that one...............

[village]

The last car I had a heater core problem was a 72 Charger
Anyone else have heater core problems?

2 heaters cores in 2 months in my 86' XR4TI.  Known design flaw though, plastic end caps.  Had a custom metal one built for it.  Unfortunately it doesn't blow much warm air, fins to far apart but better then nothing or a footwell full of fluid.

[articsteve]

The last car I had a heater core problem was a 72 Charger
Anyone else have heater core problems?

How long to do you keep your vehicles? 9 years and more. 

If your a Ford owner of 10 years or more look forward to some fun. 

[articsteve]

The last car I had a heater core problem was a 72 Charger
Anyone else have heater core problems?

Let's see - 24 cars over 42 years, many of those cars quite old. Heater core problems - ZERO. 

24 cars in 42 years. 

PPl that I know that have owned, on average a car every 1.75 years, usually drive multiple vehicles throughout the year particularly when they tend to be long term owners.

I think I'm around 50 give or take 5.   

The point is that the 80s and 90s were decades of some pretty flimsy heater core material in the domestic market which still continues  today.  I had a core go in a 89 Town Car at about 8 years.  The book is 8 hours.  My mechanic Ford Mechanic friend told me it was BS.  It took me 2 1/2 days first try and that was with a giant (in comparison today) engine compartment.  Digging those out of present day vehicles when it's the norm not to be able to slide your hand in behind the firewall and the motor gotta be horrible together with dash removal. 

   

[Mitlov]

A "car of the year award" based on the reliability of the car's heater core would be the most profoundly boring "car of the year award" ever.  Not to mention, it would also require time-travel as there's no way to accurately predict how reliable a new model for 2007 will be in 2017. 

The closest you could get to awarding such an award to a new car based on reliability is a "do I trust this brand's reliability or don't I" award.  But brand reputation isn't always an accurate indicator of reliability for a specific model because of exceptions to the rule for specific models (i.e., Acura TL's transmission problems) and because of changes in quality control from decade to decade for a specific manufacturer (i.e., Volvo and MB's decline in reliability since their heydays, and Hyundai's recent improvements).

[articsteve]

A "car of the year award" based on the reliability of the car's heater core would be the most profoundly boring "car of the year award" ever.  Not to mention, it would also require time-travel as there's no way to accurately predict how reliable a new model for 2007 will be in 2017. 

The closest you could get to awarding such an award to a new car based on reliability is a "do I trust this brand's reliability or don't I" award.  But brand reputation isn't always an accurate indicator of reliability for a specific model because of exceptions to the rule for specific models (i.e., Acura TL's transmission problems) and because of changes in quality control from decade to decade for a specific manufacturer (i.e., Volvo and MB's decline in reliability since their heydays, and Hyundai's recent improvements).

The market has already decided the long term reliability (post warranty) of the domestics.  Hence resale values of the domestics are in the dumper.  Heater cores themselves are fairly inexpensive, but the point, apparently missed by most, is that the labour to re and re parts in todays cars, which are designed to be inaccessible, is a very expensive proposition.  This is not lost on ppl who resell these cars way down the food chain.

The Aura will do as well as any other GM mid priced sedan offering, like the Buick Allure. 

It will sell because of 0% financing and it will depreciate like an Impala or Malibu.  A fine domestic car no doubt. 

[safristi]

WHY don't they just PUT all the parts that wear out inna TRUNK...and quit monkey_ING about???  NOT as DUMB as it first seems ...maybe?? easy access CARDS expenses down the ROAD.............