Author Topic: Minivan Segment Woes  (Read 2603 times)

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Location: Oshawa/Havelock, ON
  • Posts: 13372
  • Carma: +1/-34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Minivan Segment Woes
« on: January 02, 2007, 05:22:28 pm »
Interesting info. Can't believe fleet penetration for some Big 3 vehicles. Also noteworthy the contrast in how the Mazda5 has struggled badly in the US versus Canada.

Fleets prop up minivan sales
Detroit 3 retail numbers crumble as segment shrinks

Rick Kranz  |   |  Automotive News / January 1, 2007 - 1:00 am
 
DETROIT -- Simply put, Detroit 3 minivan sales are even worse than you thought.

The Detroit 3 are relying on fleet customers -- both corporate customers and daily rental companies, such as Hertz -- to prevent a minivan sales debacle.

In the first 10 months of 2006, fleet sales accounted for about 65 percent of Ford Freestar sales, about 62 percent of Chevrolet Uplander sales and about 42 percent of Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan sales.

By comparison, fleets accounted for 1 percent of Honda Odyssey sales in the same period. Overall, fleets accounted for about 27 percent of all minivan sales.

The estimates were generated by the Automotive News Data Center, which compared its own overall sales data to retail vehicle registrations provided by R.L. Polk. Fleet sales involve the purchase of 10 or more vehicles.

The data explain why Ford Motor Co. and General Motors are bailing out of traditional minivans. The Chrysler group, on the other hand, is defending its turf. The company has restyled and re-engineered the 2008 Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & County, which will debut at the Detroit auto show next week.

Meanwhile, the import brands generally have avoided a meltdown. Retail sales of the Odyssey and Toyota Sienna remain steady, although the Nissan Quest continues to struggle.

Among the imports, only the Mazda5 and Kia Sedona generate significant fleet sales. Through October, fleet customers purchased 28 percent of all Mazda5s and 17 percent of all Sedonas.
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slump
Consumers are bailing out of minivans. Here are annual retail registrations.
2001: 969,342
2002: 906,036
2003: 807,059
2004: 836,868
2005: 818,823
2006: 611,191*
* First 10 months
Source: R.L. Polk

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK isn't good enough

The minivan segment is getting tougher because many retail customers are switching to crossovers to haul families and their gear. Through October, retail buyers purchased 621,594 minivans, down 12.7 percent compared with the year-ago period.

As retail demand declines, overall minivan sales could fail to top 1 million units in 2006, their worst result in 13 years.

"We are basically looking at roughly 700,000 in retail registrations this year," says Ford sales analyst George Pipas. "As the sales volume trails off, the first thing that happens is that the domestics turn to the daily rental business."

The Ford Freestar and Aerostar were "OK" vehicles, Pipas says, despite a significant Freestar re-engineering for the 2004 model year.

GM did not invest heavily to upgrade its minivans, and sales suffered.

"You just can't be OK when you are competing against Honda and Toyota," Pipas says. "The segment is getting too small to try to be an Odyssey wannabe. It will take you years to get a reputation to get up to that level. That accounted for our kind of just taking a whole different tack on this people-mover category."

Chrysler thinks the sales slide is temporary. Ann Fandozzi, director of global product markets for the Chrysler group, blames the tightening economy and the spike in gasoline price in 2006 for the minivan sales slide.

Chrysler sees overall minivan sales increasing "and stabilizing at about the 1.2 million-unit mark," she said at a press event in December.

No mommymobiles

The Detroit 3 are at an interesting crossroads for the segment.

Chrysler invested heavily in the 2008 Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country, with a conventional exterior and an innovative interior.

But sources say General Motors will phase out its traditional minivans -- the Chevrolet Uplander, Buick Terraza and Saturn Relay -- by 2010 and replace them with mid-sized crossovers. The first of these crossovers are the 2007 Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia.

Meanwhile, Ford is producing an eight-passenger crossover for the 2009 model year. The vehicle, inspired by a recent concept called the Fairlane, will try to provide the minivan's family-hauling functions in a more stylish package. It lacks, for instance, the traditional minivan's sliding doors.

The Fairlane-inspired vehicle will be pitched to post-baby boom adults, generations X and Y, who likely spent a good portion of their childhoods scooting around in minivans and now don't want a mommymobile.

These younger adults simply aren't buying traditional minivans, says Jim Hall, vice president of AutoPacific, a consulting firm in Southfield, Mich.

He adds: "The minivan market is collapsing."
AQUAMAN64 also posts on BDFD.com!

Offline mar1990

  • Auto Obsessed
  • ***
  • Location: Ottawa
  • Posts: 513
  • Carma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 10:29:23 pm »
I would have to agree about the lack of market penetration of domestic minivans in the US.
During our trip to the US last summer, I noticed that the Honda vans seemed the most popular. Next, the Toyota,  I saw much less of the domestics vs the two I listed. 

Damn, I wish the Canadian Toyota were more priced like its American counterparts...

As for crossovers and such, I still think its hard to beat the cargo/seating capacity of a minivan.  My wife was dead set against a minivan, so I teased her by saying I wanted one...until she had to rent one for work...  :-X

Offline Cord

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 3532
  • Carma: +11/-13
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 10:39:59 pm »
Quote
The Ford Freestar and Aerostar were "OK" vehicles, Pipas says, despite a significant Freestar re-engineering for the 2004 model year.

Aerostar ???

mdxtasy

  • Guest
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 10:55:51 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

Offline Trainman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Vancouver Island
  • Posts: 5629
  • Carma: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Tree Whisperer
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Subaru Forester X; 2012 Toyota RAV4 Base AWD
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2007, 11:25:28 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

Smart woman!   ;D

They are way more practical and cost a lot less to run, just not very cool compared to SUV's
2009 Subaru Forester X Touring Edition


mdxtasy

  • Guest
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2007, 11:37:42 pm »
Priced out a Quest, Sienna, and Odessey.  It was her who wanted the SUV and NOT the minivan...now it's the other way around.   ::)

Offline Julie

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: KW
  • Posts: 5319
  • Carma: +78/-188
  • Gender: Female
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2006 TSX, 2010 BMW 335i coupe
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 12:35:39 am »
Priced out a Quest, Sienna, and Odessey.  It was her who wanted the SUV and NOT the minivan...now it's the other way around.   ::)

For more space?

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Oakville
  • Posts: 21599
  • Carma: +45/-34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD. 2004 Honda S2000
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 09:01:10 am »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

 ???  :-X R-Class?

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Location: Oshawa/Havelock, ON
  • Posts: 13372
  • Carma: +1/-34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 09:48:21 am »
Read today Ford has decided not to resume Freestar production this year, which suspended in November. So Ford's out for the count now.

Offline Trainman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Vancouver Island
  • Posts: 5629
  • Carma: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Tree Whisperer
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Subaru Forester X; 2012 Toyota RAV4 Base AWD
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 10:16:12 am »
Read today Ford has decided not to resume Freestar production this year, which suspended in November. So Ford's out for the count now.

Right here (from http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/01/03/fordminivan.html)   ;)  :

 
Ford exits minivan market to focus on crossover vehicles
Last Updated: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 | 9:20 AM ET
CBC News

Ford Motor Co. confirmed it will not resume production of the Freestar minivan that was built at its Oakville, Ont., plant and will instead build more crossover vehicles.

Production of the Freestar had been on hold since Nov. 15.

A Ford spokeswoman said the company will now focus on building two crossover wagons, the Ford Edge and the Lincoln MKX, at the Oakville plant.

Crossover vehicles are scaled-down versions of sport utility vehicles



    The Edge crossover vehicle shown here will replace production of the Freestar minivan at Ford's Oakville, Ont., plant.
    (Paul Sancya/ Associated Press)

"Demand for minivans has really decreased, while [crossover] demand has gone up," company spokeswoman Anne Marie Gattari told Bloomberg on Tuesday.

"Once we saw what demand for Edge and MKX was, it was the right business decision not to resume production [of the Freestar]," she said.


Ford had previously said it would resume assembly of the Freestar this year before it was phased out to make way for other products.

The Detroit News reported Wednesday that Ford is aiming to replace the minivan with a new full-size crossover model next year.

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Bethlehem
  • Posts: 40872
  • Carma: +141/-51
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 10:30:48 am »
Hey MDx err MiniX....that sux.....can ya get a new wife????? :D...think of the shame the horror when ya pull up at the "COWGIRL STRIPERAMA & NAKED LUNCH BAR" fer yer "usual".................. :o :D
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline Trainman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Vancouver Island
  • Posts: 5629
  • Carma: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Tree Whisperer
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Subaru Forester X; 2012 Toyota RAV4 Base AWD
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2007, 10:56:00 am »
Hey MDx err MiniX....that sux.....can ya get a new wife????? :D...think of the shame the horror when ya pull up at the "COWGIRL STRIPERAMA & NAKED LUNCH BAR" fer yer "usual".................. :o :D

But as he gets older, comfort for the "usual" in the back becomes more important and a shagg'n wagon mini van works better for us older types   :rofl2:   :rofl2:

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Bethlehem
  • Posts: 40872
  • Carma: +141/-51
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 11:04:05 am »
Oh GO PUSH yer GRANNY OFFA TRAIN  Man............................clickety clack   clickety clack..oh yeah and get yer Dentures glued in properly.....the Bar Steward will be along inna moment with DRINK ORDERS.......Whoo HOOO......I see the Train a coming........................ :rofl:

mdxtasy

  • Guest
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2007, 03:45:50 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

 ???  :-X R-Class?

Highly unlikely.  Last time I checked, I wasn't a mine designer nor a network administrator or advertising exec with a high paying spouse.  ;)

Offline initial_D

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Deer Red Green Lodge, Ab
  • Posts: 12378
  • Carma: +14/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2007, 03:56:34 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

 ???  :-X R-Class?

Highly unlikely.  Last time I checked, I wasn't a mine designer nor a network administrator or advertising exec with a high paying spouse.  ;)

Need room for 2 kids + Puppie 'N Chows ... Plus need room for Rear DVD entertainment Center.  :)

We is not in the same League with the like$ of $nowman and Company ... lower expenses and no kid$$ (as of today) is the order of the day.  :D :)

Offline Trainman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Vancouver Island
  • Posts: 5629
  • Carma: +4/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Tree Whisperer
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Subaru Forester X; 2012 Toyota RAV4 Base AWD
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 04:11:05 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

 ???  :-X R-Class?

Highly unlikely.  Last time I checked, I wasn't a mine designer nor a network administrator or advertising exec with a high paying spouse.  ;)

Need room for 2 kids + Puppie 'N Chows ... Plus need room for Rear DVD entertainment Center.  :)

We is not in the same League with the like$ of $nowman and Company ... lower expenses and no kid$$ (as of today) is the order of the day.  :D :)

What he REALLY wants:




Or this maybe?



Lost of room for kids and chow   ;D



Offline initial_D

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Deer Red Green Lodge, Ab
  • Posts: 12378
  • Carma: +14/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2007, 04:20:49 pm »
My wife wants a minivan over the MDX now.  :shake:

 ???  :-X R-Class?

Highly unlikely.  Last time I checked, I wasn't a mine designer nor a network administrator or advertising exec with a high paying spouse.  ;)

Need room for 2 kids + Puppie 'N Chows ... Plus need room for Rear DVD entertainment Center.  :)

We is not in the same League with the like$ of $nowman and Company ... lower expenses and no kid$$ (as of today) is the order of the day.  :D :)

What he REALLY wants:




Or this maybe?



Lost of room for kids and chow   ;D




Pic ovr 100Kb.

Offline initial_D

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Deer Red Green Lodge, Ab
  • Posts: 12378
  • Carma: +14/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2007, 04:22:03 pm »
??

Now it shows up ...  :-X ;D ... MD ... in A Ford ...  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl2: :rofl2:  :banana: :banana:

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Bethlehem
  • Posts: 40872
  • Carma: +141/-51
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2007, 05:58:11 pm »
 A Ford a FRAUD my Kingdom fer a HEARSE.............. ::) ???

Offline initial_D

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Deer Red Green Lodge, Ab
  • Posts: 12378
  • Carma: +14/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Minivan Segment Woes
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2007, 06:06:58 pm »
Lear Lear ... take a couple of Mates to bed to play with, then call us in the morning ... that Ford better?  :)