Author Topic: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG  (Read 3139 times)

Offline MKII

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Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« on: November 29, 2006, 01:13:26 pm »
ESSAOUIRA, Morocco - Alan Mulally, new CEO of Ford, would have been delighted at the performance of the new Land Rover Freelander during its media launch on the southwest Atlantic coast of Morocco here.

Maybe the good reception for the new Freelander, to be called the LR2 when it arrives in the U.S. in the spring, will help Mulally as he pores over the Ford and Premier Automotive Group bottom lines and takes life or death decisions for its brands, plants and people.

The LR2 bounded up sand dunes, crept over rocky hillsides and generally ate up tough terrain to the manor born, all accomplished with panache in a bigger, more comfortable iteration of the previous model, with improved engines and transmissions. It remains to be seen whether this crucial new vehicle for Land Rover will do enough to guarantee the British SUV-maker's future, which might depend on factors outside its control.

Ford has lost about $7 billion this year and isn't likely to see black numbers until 2009. One decision which could radically impact future profits is what to do with Ford's Premier Automotive Group (PAG), the European upmarket brands of Land Rover, Volvo, Jaguar and Aston Martin, which were charged with leading a revolution to premium profits.

So far the theory hasn't been working.

Losses again in 2006

PAG has made huge losses in three out of the last four years. Last year it lost $1.6 billion, mainly thanks to Jaguar. This year, which was supposed to mark a return to profitability, will see losses again. Specialist luxury sports car maker and Porsche competitor Aston Martin is already being sold.

Jaguar and Land Rover, and to a minor extent Volvo, are storied names in the automotive world which spur emotions among "car guys", which rise above such sordid concerns as profits. The tug at the heart strings because of their history and tradition has surely saved Jaguar and Land Rover in the past when pure economics would have consigned them to the knacker's yard.

But the intriguing question is, what will Mulally, an outsider and business expert with no preconceived automotive notions and no car brand baggage, see when he inevitably bears down on PAG, its brands and its future? He could see BMW, Mercedes and Porsche style margins leading the way to the broad sunlit uplands of Ford's renewal. Or he might see PAG as a hubris-driven, profit-munching virus which must be exterminated if Ford is to survive.

Volvo most likely to succeed

As is the way with these things, the answer will be somewhere in the middle, although many see no long-term future for Britian's Jaguar, which might have be cut back to its bare essentials and moved to the U.S. to become successful, while Land Rover might also have to divert a large part of its production to the U.S. Sweden's Volvo looks the most likely to succeed, although it might have to move production of its large cars to the U.S.

"Jaguar has become irrelevant in the market place; it probably was before Ford bought it in 1989, but it's become known as an old man's car," said John Wolkonowicz, Global Insight's senior analyst for North America, based in Lexington, Mass.

This week, Jaguar announced the replacement of its mid-range S-Type sedan with the new Jaguar XF. The S-Type shared much of its engineering with the Lincoln LS. Jaguar offered no pictures or details of the new XF, just saying it will make its public debut in the fall of 2007. If the XF doesn't have the "wow" factor in spades, Jaguar's future will be bleak.

"I don't know what to do with it (Jaguar); I'd try to sell it to the Chinese or Koreans to see that they would do. Land Rover is a little different. I think it has a kind of mystique that is very powerful. That's one brand that Ford should be keeping. Volvo is the crown jewel of PAG and that's exciting for Ford because it has fairly high volume that's got a completely different demographic than Ford. It's big on safety - that's a major hot button for baby boomer consumers. It's not premium, but it's not quite mainstream either, kind of in between, not a bad place to be, better than the average and you don't have to break the bank to buy it," said Wolkonowicz.

Why produce at high cost British plants?

Krish Bhaskar, who heads the Motor Industry Research Unit (MIRU) based in Nice, France, said Mulally won't see the logic of producing Jaguars and Land Rovers in high cost British plants.

"Mulally will almost certainly switch some Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Discovery production to an underused plant in the U.S. or Canada. The big thing is, PAG production will no longer be tied to Europe. Volvo must stay there yes, but larger Volvos could move to the U.S. too," said Bhaskar, who added that he was talking long-term, over a 10-year period.

The fate of Land Rover production, not to mention Jaguar's, won't be helped by the dollar's renewed decline on foreign exchange markets. The British pound accelerated to $1.95 on Nov. 28, its highest for 2 years, as it bore down on $2.00

Bhaskar said Land Rover and Jaguar production in the U.S. would also tie in with Mulally's desire to adopt Toyota style use of more or less identical plants all over the world, which would allow great flexibility, huge cost cuts, and avoid foreign exchange problems. He advocated the embrace of global platforms, which have been sought by Ford in the past, but then died on the vine as local Ford management dug their heels in.

"What happened to Ford 2000? Other global platform initiatives were tried and failed like the Ford Mondeo, the Escort and the Focus too. Local market people got their way and killed it," said Bhaskar.

Poor management

Walt Madeira, British-based Europe Sales Forecast Manager for CSM Worldwide, is another analyst less than impressed by PAG's contribution so far, saying it has been the victim of poor management choices. But Land Rover will benefit from the SUV boom, which will take global demand to 2 million a year in 2012 from 750,000 in 1999.

"Ford would be foolish to back away from Land Rover's challenging future. Volvo is selling more cars and SUVs, has a wider line-up now with the little C30 (arriving in the U.S. in April 2007). Volvo is no longer regarded as a company that makes "square station wagons" but a trendy, curvy and sexy brand, well known for high safety levels. But it does have plants in high cost countries," said Madeira.

"Jaguar is following the path to eventually join Aston Martin on the selling block. It's only a question of deciding the year to sell. Ford has failed in changing the consumer perception of the brand's image and values, and with the failure of the move down market with the X-Type, low volumes and high profit margins per vehicle are the brand's future," Madeira said.

John Wormald, analyst with British automotive consultancy Autopolis, said Jaguar has been a financial black hole for Ford and never saw the reasoning which created PAG in the first place.

Throw dead weight overboard

"The whole assemblage of PAG never made sense to me. If I were Mulally I would be asking rather hard questions about what this was doing for me. The finances, other than Volvo, are pretty horrific. With Ford fighting for its life in America, certain bits of dead weight might have to be thrown overboard. It's sad yes, they make some good products, but that doesn't cut the mustard financially," said Wormald.

"The trouble is, who would want to buy bits of PAG apart from Volvo? I can't see it," added Wormald.

CSM Worldwide's Madeira reckons potential investors in Land Rover will be reassured by its global sales prospects, which will increase towards 225,000 by 2010 from 200,000 expected in 2007. Sales in 2005 were 185,120.

Madeira expects LR2 sales of 70,000 in 2008, slightly down on the last Freelander's peak of 73,000 hit in 2002

All bets off if quality fails

According to MIRU's Bhaskar, any potential buyers will be impressed by Land Rover's new LR2, which, although unlikely to reach its sales target of between 70,000 and 80,000 a year, will comfortably sell between 50,000 and 60,000.

"They've launched it at a very aggressive, high price, but even though the competition has become much stronger since the first Freelander, with the Toyota Rav 4, Honda CR-V and Nisssan X-Trail all moving upmarket too, it will do more than enough to break even. They'll make money, it will work well," said Bhaskar.

All bets are off, though, if quality problems endemic in the first Freelander are not cured. J.D.Power reports on LR2 quality will be crucial reading for LR2 buyers, and potential Land Rover investors.

Neil Winton, European columnist for Autos Insider

Offline haris

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 04:20:59 pm »
All Ford needs to do is get rid of all the management in North America and replace them with trained monkeys. They'd do better.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 05:19:46 pm »
All Ford needs to do is get rid of all the management in North America and replace them with trained monkeys. They'd do better.


How is that going to solve Land Rover's and Jags low quality / high cost to produce?

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 05:57:05 pm »
A real shame to see Jaguar go but with a company hurting like Ford they can hardly keep propping them up. Interesting to see if they shut the doors or try to sell them off. Not sure where Jag would be without the Ford parts bin ...

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 06:08:19 pm »
Jag and Land Rover were in the sh..ter long before Ford got to them. Didn't do them a lot of favours except to make them a little more reliable.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 06:25:20 pm »
Oh yes they are better off because of Ford. Not so much the other way around though. Both had elderly engines and platforms - without funds to develop new stuff. I guess my point is does any company want them, especially with all the Ford bits involved. Maybe the Chinese ... they did buy bits of MG-Rover. Can't see an obvious fit anywhere else.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 06:32:40 pm »
All Ford needs to do is get rid of all the management in North America and replace them with trained monkeys. They'd do better.


How is that going to solve Land Rover's and Jags low quality / high cost to produce?
It won't. It's off topic, but every few months another thing comes out regarding Ford's troubles, with another plan on how to save it.

As for Jag and Land Rover...
I believe Land Rover can be saved, the name still evokes romantic images in everyone's head and they are actually making some decent vehicles. They are spread thin though, so going back to making two, maybe three models might help. Full off-road, a bit tamer off-road and luxury off-road. Design in Britain, build parts in one of the poor countries in Europe, do final assembly in Britain to reduce the build costs...

I agree that both were saved by Ford at one point, but it's easy to argue that all Ford did was prolong the inevitable or even diluted the brand name.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 09:14:03 pm »
I don't see much hope for any of the PAG besides Volvo.  Maybe Jaguar should team up with Saab? ;)

Volvo, though, has a lot of hope.  They're all over around here.  I've liked the second-gen S40/V50 and XC90 since their release, and the new C70 and C30 are good designs.  I just wish Volvo would update the S60/V70/XC70 already.
"Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder. What unites us is far greater than what divides us." -- John F. Kennedy, addressing Canadian Parliament.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 09:30:29 pm »
I don't see much hope for any of the PAG besides Volvo.  Maybe Jaguar should team up with Saab? ;)

Volvo, though, has a lot of hope.  They're all over around here.  I've liked the second-gen S40/V50 and XC90 since their release, and the new C70 and C30 are good designs.  I just wish Volvo would update the S60/V70/XC70 already.

Volvo has confirmed  that the new V70 will be launched in week 10 of 2007 at the Geneva Motor Show(March 2007), and will be at the dealership in September '07.
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/_internal/cimg!0/4g92eab0nh9nadko.jpeg
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/_internal/cimg!0/4g92eab0nh9nadkt.jpeg

.As for the XC70, the new one will be presented in week 15 of 2007 at the New York Motor Show(April 2007)
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109392_172143.jpg
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109393_921919.jpg
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109391_735899.jpg

New S60 is scheduled for MY2009.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 09:53:21 pm by MKII »

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 04:05:28 pm »
Volvo of Durham in Pickering has built a new dealership (I hate this particular dealer, and the new building looks like a bland block which is what they're going for I guess), and noticed earlier today Coventry Jaguar Land-Rover has a sign and some cars up in the old location (which used to be Bayview Mazda eons ago).

Coventry used to be in Scarborough in a terribly cramped and awkward looking building. Quite a distance to move, but the luxury market dealerships in Durham are finally springing up (used to seemingly only be Audi, Acura, Cadillac or Lincoln 5 years ago) and are turning up the heat.
AQUAMAN64 also posts on BDFD.com!

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 04:47:44 pm »
I think that the Coventry place in Scarberia is about to be part of a ginormous big box area on Eglinton north side stretching from Vic park to just before Birchmount
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 09:56:53 am »
On my way home to Newfoundland in December, I bought Car magazine at P.E.T. Airport.  THere was an article on Jaguar, stating clearly that the brand was not up for sale.
-Ken

SAAB: automobile design inspired by Salvador Dali on an absinthe bender.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 05:55:21 pm »
Scarberia Scarberia we stand on floppy discs..since Mike Meyers and 5 Billion others ..have fled yer flaccid shores....Tpl is the final straw..But Inco refuses to exit...from shore to shining post whore.......... :bow:
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2007, 09:25:14 am »
I don't see much hope for any of the PAG besides Volvo.  Maybe Jaguar should team up with Saab? ;)

Volvo, though, has a lot of hope.  They're all over around here.  I've liked the second-gen S40/V50 and XC90 since their release, and the new C70 and C30 are good designs.  I just wish Volvo would update the S60/V70/XC70 already.

Volvo has confirmed  that the new V70 will be launched in week 10 of 2007 at the Geneva Motor Show(March 2007), and will be at the dealership in September '07.
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/_internal/cimg!0/4g92eab0nh9nadko.jpeg
http://www.teknikensvarld.se/_internal/cimg!0/4g92eab0nh9nadkt.jpeg

.As for the XC70, the new one will be presented in week 15 of 2007 at the New York Motor Show(April 2007)
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109392_172143.jpg
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109393_921919.jpg
http://pic.66wz.com/0/00/10/93/109391_735899.jpg

New S60 is scheduled for MY2009.



Wow they're giving the S60 a really long run with this current design that's been around since, what.....2001? Sales must still be going strong.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2007, 11:16:31 am »
In a way that is part of a Volvo's charm. They have always done long model runs.

P1800 was about 10 years without a significant body change
The 240 was around forever and so was the 7 series.

The V70 is still in it's Volvo prime! ;D

Perhaps the long model runs plays into the Volvo durability myth/story. People see a 2006 and assume it is from the late nineties. ;) To me the long model runs are fine. A Volvo wagon looks like a Volvo wagon. No change for the sake of change.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2007, 12:28:11 pm »
Scarberia Scarberia we stand on floppy discs..since Mike Meyers and 5 Billion others ..have fled yer flaccid shores....Tpl is the final straw..But Inco refuses to exit...from shore to shining post whore.......... :bow:

I did not understand that... the decoder ring got hot and came up with an error code.

I did see that Coventry is still there but surrounded now.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2007, 12:29:58 pm »
In a way that is part of a Volvo's charm. They have always done long model runs.

P1800 was about 10 years without a significant body change
The 240 was around forever and so was the 7 series.

The V70 is still in it's Volvo prime! ;D

Perhaps the long model runs plays into the Volvo durability myth/story. People see a 2006 and assume it is from the late nineties. ;) To me the long model runs are fine. A Volvo wagon looks like a Volvo wagon. No change for the sake of change.

 :iagree: :iagree:  What would the world be without proper Volvo station wagons that remain constant over the eons.

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2007, 01:28:36 pm »
Mullaley  wasn't HIS/HER SHEW cancelled................soo solly to Morocco the BOAT.........swamped as FORD IS..........BRING OVER  Gavin BERTWHISTLE   an unemployed gaffer from DorkChester...he'll FIX THINGS UP ...REAL GOOD :rofl:

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Re: Only Volvo looks favored as Ford dissects loss-maker PAG
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 12:27:09 pm »
More pics of the XC70:

http://www.teknikensvarld.se/bilspionen/nyheter/070110_xc70/index.xml

What's that under the blue tarp?  :think: