Author Topic: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list  (Read 6629 times)

Offline Giant Dwarf

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2006, 10:24:21 am »
Ovr, even if the IIHS is using these types of media announcements as a lobbying tool to cut their costs, the end result in this case is extremely positive for the consumers. There is not a single negative aspect of promoting ESC, a grand nanny ready to step in if someone is about to loose control of his or her vehicle.

The governments react too slowy; the car companies don't want to increase the base vehicle costs (even when it is marginal). Is it so bad that a private group lobbying results in safer vehicles?


Possibly their actions can help; but I think that the thrust of the article is that the help is mis-directed ie. would it not be better to improve driver education and habits than to build ever increasingly complex/heavy vehicles, and to promote technology that takes away control from the driver? I think that is what they are saying here. Soon we will be transported (because we won't be driving) in some auto-driving, heavily padded "thing" that will make accidents rare and self-determination a mere memory. I think that disturbs some ppl. Personally, I don't want to "drive" something like that. Why not safer drivers AND safer vehicles?

Ovr, I agree to an extent.  My greater problem with studies like this trying to force tech 'solutions' like ESC down everyone's throat is that now consumers will begin demanding it -- assuming that it will make their cars safer.  Overall, this is probably true, however what happens when car makers are forced to try to develop these complex systems for low end cars?  Well you get something like the situation where GM put half-assed-developed ABS or airbag systems in half-assed cars like the Cavalier.  Didn't stopping distances in 'non-slippery' situations often get extended because of ABS in these cases?  Didn't people end up with a number of severe airbag injuries because of systems hurried to market without proper development first (unlike current 2-stage setups)? 

Beyond all that, I suppose one could also argue that the electro nannies will also help contribute to increases in the 'invicibility mentalities' when behind the wheel too.  "My car has ABS, AWD, ESC, TCS, SRS and XYZ so I'm not afraid to go passing everyone on the highway in the snowstorm"

The trouble is, when the media gets ahold of information like this, consumers on average, won't educate themselves enough to fully understand automotive dynamics and fully appreciate when ESC can and won't aid the driver.  Wouldn't it be misleading to present a small Cute-Ute (for example) that is designed with economy in mind first and foremost that has a mediocre ESC system with a tall, less stable, heavier vehicle and perhaps a soft, comfortable suspension set up (more prone to roll-overs, longer stopping distance and generally poorer handling) than -- for example -- an Impreza with a superbly developed AWD and ABS system and decent handling -- as a 'safer' vehicle? 

Offline Benhaze

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2006, 10:38:54 am »
I agree improving driver education would be, in theory, the #1 factor for reducing the number and severity of accidents. Unfortunately, human nature is such that even good drivers can't stop themselves doing stupid things or taking chances. And some drivers should never have gotten a driving license in the first place but that's a whole different matter.

There public perception is obviously a determining factor how successful a specific vehicle and company will be. Many factors influence the public perception and the auto companies design vehicles considering these factors. The IIHS is just one of them focused on safety; CR is focused on reliability; JD Power on "quality"; and many websites/magazines for everything else. The combination of all of them gives us much better cars.

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2006, 11:00:21 am »
Quote
Beyond all that, I suppose one could also argue that the electro nannies will also help contribute to increases in the 'invicibility mentalities' when behind the wheel too.  "My car has ABS, AWD, ESC, TCS, SRS and XYZ so I'm not afraid to go passing everyone on the highway in the snowstorm"

The problem I have with this argument is based on my own practical experience driving in many severe snowstorms on the 401. If this argument would be true, the stupid drivers passing me at insane speeds would be Subarus, Audis, Benzes, BMWs... But they are not. When it's not a semi  ::), it's a pickup, SUV, old beater, and just about any other car but the above mentioned. We all know the "commanding view" of pickups and SUVs is the main factor for their driver's feeling of invincibility.

I personally don't think the electronic wizardry is such a potential concern for promoting irresponsible driving.

Offline ovr50

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2006, 11:07:24 am »
ovr50--do anti-lock brakes make you mad?

Of course not. I have had vehicles w ABS since about 1986 or so; and like it.
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2006, 01:05:05 pm »
GM's relationship with its subsidiaries differs from (say) Aston Martin/Ford greatly.  Aston Martins are not sold alongside Fusions at my local Ford store, whereas Saab is sold alongside Saturn.  My point was that Saab is a recognized domestic brand (as a subsidiary of General Motors), while other relationships (like Ford/Mazda) are not nearly so prominent.  Ford and Mazda each have their own isolated dealer network etc.

I've never seen a Saab/Saturn dealer, or a Saturn dealership that also sold Saabs.  Must be an isolated case.  Saab does have its own "isolated dealer network."  Just go to Saab's website and search for dealers.  The two Saab dealers in Oregon only sell Saabs to my knowledge.

So there's a Saab/Saturn dealership near you?  So what?  I get my car serviced at a Subaru/Volvo/Mitsubishi dealership.  All three brands are sold from one lot by one set of salespeople, and serviced by one set of mechanics.  It doesn't mean the corporations are related at all, not to mention so intrinsically related that you should deny their separate corporate existence.

Canadian and US franchise laws are different. I'm not sure on the specifics, but in the US you will see Subaru/Volvo/Mazda/Mitsu/Pontiac/whoever stores, but you do not see this in Canada. A dealer group may own them, or they may be grouped in an automall, but for the most part they are in separate buildings. There are a few here grouped under one roof, but you will not see a dualed Mazda/Subaru store or similar like you might in the US (someone, please don't speak up if you live near one  :P).

Also, in Canada GM dealers are franchised like this:
- Pontiac-Buick-GMC
- Chevrolet-Cadillac, or just Chevrolet (sort of rare)
- Saturn-SAAB (Used to be Saturn-Saab-Isuzu, but Isuzu departed Canada in 2005 or thereabouts)
- Hummer is awarded to a successful dealer group, often the Chevrolet-Cadillac franchise, but Hummer doesn't have many dealers
- Full-line, selling all with/exception of Hummer. This happens in rural areas, but not very common

You will NOT see a stand alone Buick store. Cadillac experimented with stand-alone stores (separate buildings would be more appropriate) but for the most part none either. The US is pushing for stand-alone SAAB retailers but you won't see them in Canada - not enough sales to support it and Saturn is pushing upmarket, so to me the dualing of the 2 import-ish GM brands together (combined with Saturn's superb CSI) makes sense if they can upgrade their facilities. The US is trying desparately to move to the Canadian model of Pontiac-Buick-GMC and Chevrolet-Cadillac, with Hummer, Saab, and Saturn having stand-alones.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 01:13:28 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »
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Offline AVToller

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2006, 01:08:03 pm »
There is a dual Subaru/Suzuki dealer in Richmond, BC under one roof. Terrible dealer though.  :P :P
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Offline UmroAyyar

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2006, 01:13:10 pm »
There used to be a Jaguar/Mitsubishi dealership in East Toronto until very recently.
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Offline Giant Dwarf

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2006, 01:14:15 pm »
There is a dual Subaru/Suzuki dealer in Richmond, BC under one roof. Terrible dealer though.  :P :P

There's a Subaru-Hyundai dealer in Stratford under the same roof / name too.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2006, 01:15:21 pm »
There is a dual Subaru/Suzuki dealer in Richmond, BC under one roof. Terrible dealer though.  :P :P

There's one in Ajax/Whitby as well. They're going to separate.

They do exist, but franchise laws are different (again, don't know what the points are) and if you compare you will not see examples in Canada that are found in the US like Ford/Subaru, or Pontiac/Mitsubishi.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 01:20:46 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »

Offline safristi

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2006, 01:19:26 pm »
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Offline ovr50

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Re: Imported models won all 13 top spots on the IIHS safest vehicle list
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2006, 01:24:00 pm »
There is a dual Subaru/Suzuki dealer in Richmond, BC under one roof. Terrible dealer though.  :P :P

One here also - also terrible.  :P