Topic: Torque specs for Honda wheels

[Accordingly]

Hi guys

I bought a torque wrench with the aim of installing my winter/summer tires myself. Anyone know what the specs are for a 1996 Honda Accord EX (steel wheels for both summer and winter)?

Your kind assistance is appreciated.

[HeliDriver]

Check your owner's manual to be sure, but it's probably between 70 and 80 lb*ft.

[articsteve]

I'd put 90lbs in an alternating pattern.

[Accordingly]

Thanks kindly, guys. Cheers.

[curls]

Most Honda's I've seen are 79.4 #'s.  So I think 80 is just fine.

[Accordingly]

thanks curls...

[articsteve]

Most ppl when using a wheel torque wrench use a small extension to avoid scraping the fenders.  The extension works as a reverse torque stick.  In other words the lug is receiving less torque than you set the torque wrench for.  That is why I said 90 ft/lbs.  It's better to be safe and 90 has zero negative effect on a steel wheel.  Any garage on a steel wheel will automatically use 100 ft/lbs.

[Accordingly]

thanks for clarification...you are referring to an extension on the socket, I presume.

[HeliDriver]

Most ppl when using a wheel torque wrench use a small extension to avoid scraping the fenders.  The extension works as a reverse torque stick.  In other words the lug is receiving less torque than you set the torque wrench for.  That is why I said 90 ft/lbs.  It's better to be safe and 90 has zero negative effect on a steel wheel.  Any garage on a steel wheel will automatically use 100 ft/lbs.

You mean one like this?:

I can't quite picture why a simple extension would make any difference.  It's just like using a long screwdriver vs. one of those little stubby ones. No difference in the torque being applied to the screw head (or the lug nut, in this case). 

[Accordingly]

Hmmm, unless there is some small loss of force due to the twisting of the socket? That's the only thing I could imagine.

[articsteve]

You mean one like this?:

I can't quite picture why a simple extension would make any difference.  It's just like using a long screwdriver vs. one of those little stubby ones. No difference in the torque being applied to the screw head (or the lug nut, in this case). 

It's just like using a long screwdriver vs. one of those little stubby ones.

No.  In your analogy you are replacing the stubby socket with a long socket.  Still just one individual piece.  In reality when you add the extension you end up with two pieces (extension and socket) that flex and not in unison.  When you regularly use impact guns with extensions you experience this phenomenon. 

[HeliDriver]

You mean one like this?:

I can't quite picture why a simple extension would make any difference.  It's just like using a long screwdriver vs. one of those little stubby ones. No difference in the torque being applied to the screw head (or the lug nut, in this case). 

It's just like using a long screwdriver vs. one of those little stubby ones.

No.  In your analogy you are replacing the stubby socket with a long socket.  Still just one individual piece.  In reality when you add the extension you end up with two pieces (extension and socket) that flex and not in unison.  When you regularly use impact guns with extensions you experience this phenomenon. 

I don't see how "flex" would be an issue (not with 80 to 100 lb*ft applied through a 1/2" drive, anyway), but I suppsose that if someone didn't make sure to keep the whole apparatus at 90 degrees to the torque wrench, then some error would occur.

Other than that, with a manual torque wrench, any slop in the system is going to be taken up with the application of an infinitessimal amount of torque.

[articsteve]

I don't see how "flex" would be an issue (not with 80 to 100 lb*ft applied through a 1/2" drive, anyway), but I suppsose that if someone didn't make sure to keep the whole apparatus at 90 degrees to the torque wrench, then some error would occur.

Other than that, with a manual torque wrench, any slop in the system is going to be taken up with the application of an infinitessimal amount of torque.

but I suppsose that if someone didn't make sure to keep the whole apparatus at 90 degrees to the torque wrench, then some error would occur.

The three pieces:  the torque wrench, the extension, and the socket, connected at 2 places, even though they are heading in the same direction are never in alignment.

The point is that if your app calls for 80. ft/lbs. and assuming the wrench is dead on, then when using the extension the lug torque will always be less than 80 ft./lbs.   So that is why I suggested 90 ft/lbs. To compensate for the usual inaccuracies of the wrenches and the negative effect of the extension.

[No H2O]

Hi guys

I bought a torque wrench with the aim of installing my winter/summer tires myself. Anyone know what the specs are for a 1996 Honda Accord EX (steel wheels for both summer and winter)?

Your kind assistance is appreciated.

I don't have my Honda CR-V manual in front of me, but I am almost 99.9% sure it states: 80 lbf.ft.

And the torque is spec'd for DRY threads.

And an extension does not affect the torque.

And you want to arrive at 80 lbf.ft. in stages...say 40, then 80, or go up in three steps...thats pushing it.

If you have alloy wheels, to prevent scratches, wrap the socket with electrical tape or put a layer of heat shrink on it...space allowing.

[No H2O]

The three pieces:  the torque wrench, the extension, and the socket, connected at 2 places, even though they are heading in the same direction are never in alignment.

Thats why I use a deep socket and two hands...one of the head of my clicker torque wrench and the other on the wrench itself. Besides, most clickers are calibrated within 4% (even a Snap-On).

[Accordingly]

Thanks for that...steel wheels on both sets of tires. I plan to tighten in a criss-cross pattern, and as you suggested, I will tighten incrementally. Cheers.

[articsteve]

Hi guys

I bought a torque wrench with the aim of installing my winter/summer tires myself. Anyone know what the specs are for a 1996 Honda Accord EX (steel wheels for both summer and winter)?

Your kind assistance is appreciated.

I don't have my Honda CR-V manual in front of me, but I am almost 99.9% sure it states: 80 lbf.ft.

And the torque is spec'd for DRY threads.

And an extension does not affect the torque.

And you want to arrive at 80 lbf.ft. in stages...say 40, then 80, or go up in three steps...thats pushing it.

If you have alloy wheels, to prevent scratches, wrap the socket with electrical tape or put a layer of heat shrink on it...space allowing.

And an extension does not affect the torque   

Then you quote me : The three pieces:  the torque wrench, the extension, and the socket, connected at 2 places, even though they are heading in the same direction are never in alignment.

Then you reply to that quote:  Thats why I use a deep socket and two hands...one of the head of my clicker torque wrench and the other on the wrench itself. Besides, most clickers are calibrated within 4% (even a Snap-On).

You just contradicted yourself.      Of course extensions affect torque.  Go out and buy an impact gun and learn from experience.

EDIT:

Atlas Copco has produced a multi-lingual folder outlining the many benefits to be gained by using guided sockets and extensions with ErgoPulse impulse tools, complete with detailed ordering information.

When using impulse nutrunners, torque loss and vibrations can be caused by the attachments between sockets, spindles and extensions. Atlas Copco has introduced a range of guided sockets and extensions that improve transmission of torque – and thereby accuracy – while reducing noise and vibrations.

http://www.atlascopco.com/websites/tools/products/Website.nsf/vNews2/5afda802da6616d6c1256df0005a5c96

 


Besides, most clickers are calibrated within 4%

Define "most".  Name them.    1/2 inch clicker type wheel torque wrenches, generally low end Chinese no names as found in Crappy Tire have a wide variance of quality and the durability.  To say that they are or hold a calibration of 4% or less is ridiculous.  Assume 10% variation on even a new one unless it is a Snap-on or Mack which generally run $250.

[No H2O]

Of course extensions affect torque.  Go out and buy an impact gun and learn from experience.

Steve, we're not even discussing impact guns and those sockets that limit torque. Pros don't use impact guns to tighten wheel nuts.

So if you can now explain how a solid extension or even a deep socket (and thats all we've been talking about) affects torque, I'm all ears.

Define "most".  Name them.    1/2 inch clicker type wheel torque wrenches, generally low end Chinese no names as found in Crappy Tire have a wide variance of quality and the durability.  To say that they are or hold a calibration of 4% or less is ridiculous.  Assume 10% variation on even a new one unless it is a Snap-on or Mack which generally run $250.

"Most" brands will make that claim. And unless you have the calibrating facilities that we do (and by the way, we work at the Standards Level where we calibrate the torque calibrators), you'll never know how well you can trust your reading.

Besides, when is the last time most users even had their torque wrench calibrated? Most don't even know a calibration of any measuring device is necessary. They see a number on a DMM and its gospel!

As for 4%, my Snap-On is well within that and that was 17 years after I bought it. Let me pull up my Excel spread sheet: yup, in the upper 80% of its range where they are spec'd, it is well within spec, but more importantly, it is repeatable as I do 5 runs at each setting. Thats the most important charachteristic of any measuring device...is it repeatable. I don't care if I have to set 75 lbf.ft. to get a true 80 lbf.ft. as long as I know that is the case every time.

I have three Snap-On torque wrenches (1/4, 3/8, 1/2) and they are all in spec and calibrated. If I want to be spot on, I'll pull out my calibration charts and set whatever I need to to be spot on, but 4% is more than good enough. Hell, angle torquing is far more accurate.

[curls]

So 'hcrv'... you are saying, from industry/professional knowledge, that any solid socket extension (that holds the wrench further out from the wheel, and sits between the socket and the wrench), is NOT going to affect torque settings -- is this right?  It was my first assumption and I am hoping I'm right.

Also, will adding a "breaker bar" to the end of a torque wrench (clicker-type or otherwise) require different settings, or will it simply make achieving the desired torque easier on your arm?  IIRC the torquing mechanism in a torque wrench shouldn't be affected by a breaker-bar type extension because its reading the torque at the head of the wrench, not the handle portion, correct?

[articsteve]

Of course extensions affect torque.  Go out and buy an impact gun and learn from experience.

Steve, we're not even discussing impact guns and those sockets that limit torque. Pros don't use impact guns to tighten wheel nuts.

So if you can now explain how a solid extension or even a deep socket (and thats all we've been talking about) affects torque, I'm all ears.

Define "most".  Name them.    1/2 inch clicker type wheel torque wrenches, generally low end Chinese no names as found in Crappy Tire have a wide variance of quality and the durability.  To say that they are or hold a calibration of 4% or less is ridiculous.  Assume 10% variation on even a new one unless it is a Snap-on or Mack which generally run $250.

"Most" brands will make that claim. And unless you have the calibrating facilities that we do (and by the way, we work at the Standards Level where we calibrate the torque calibrators), you'll never know how well you can trust your reading.

Besides, when is the last time most users even had their torque wrench calibrated? Most don't even know a calibration of any measuring device is necessary. They see a number on a DMM and its gospel!

As for 4%, my Snap-On is well within that and that was 17 years after I bought it. Let me pull up my Excel spread sheet: yup, in the upper 80% of its range where they are spec'd, it is well within spec, but more importantly, it is repeatable as I do 5 runs at each setting. Thats the most important charachteristic of any measuring device...is it repeatable. I don't care if I have to set 75 lbf.ft. to get a true 80 lbf.ft. as long as I know that is the case every time.

I have three Snap-On torque wrenches (1/4, 3/8, 1/2) and they are all in spec and calibrated. If I want to be spot on, I'll pull out my calibration charts and set whatever I need to to be spot on, but 4% is more than good enough. Hell, angle torquing is far more accurate.

Steve, we're not even discussing impact guns and those sockets that limit torque.

The same exact principles applies.  That is the only reference I could locate.  You on the other hand provide nothing.

Pros don't use impact guns to tighten wheel nuts.

I never suggested that.     Although your wrong.  Even the most diligent professionals seat the rim on the hub with an air gun and then use the hand wrench.  There are only so many minutes in a day.

Besides, when is the last time most users even had their torque wrench calibrated?

Never and never will.

Lets be clear; a $100 Sears or Crappy Tire clicker 1/2 wheel torquer is the same quality as a $40 Princess Auto or Deals unit.  The only difference is that ppl paid more at the brand stores.  They all function, but the accuracy must be suspect and is usually lower than what's indicated.

you'll never know how well you can trust your reading.

Exactly.  Thank you. 

Consequently,  When a Honda steel wheel calls for 80 ft./lbs. and one is using a cheapo Chinese made torque wrench and an extension , which most home owners do because they don't have the really long reach deep sockets, then throw 90 ft./lbs on the sucker to be safe.  In reality it is probably 85 ft./lb. but so what?   After all it is only a steel wheel on a steel hub.  That is why I originally recommended 90, but now the original poster knows. Hey, he could have only 70 on them now.