Topic: Best and worst car dealers

[ornuMA]

I wanted to express my opinion of the best and worst dealers(when looking to purchase) I have encountered.

The Best experience was with an ACURA dealer(Acura on Main). We were looking at an EL back in 1997 and found that the way they treated us from the begining to the end of the purchase was outstanding.
The Worst experience was with a GM dealer(LeeMunro) Paris,On.
I really thought the old school sales tatics had died years ago, not in this dealership.The games and the intimidation they tried to pull was brutal.
The sales manager is a piece of work(the owners brother), the waiting games, the greasy car salesman phrases and when trying to negotiate they wanted us to give them $1000 before they would look at an offer. That's a first for me.
I suggest to anyone looking for a GM product, avoid this place.

 

[Julie]

I wanted to express my opinion of the best and worst dealers(when looking to purchasing) I have encountered.

The Best experience was with a ACURA dealer(Acura on Main). We were looking at an EL back in 1997 and found that way they treated us from the begining to the end of the purchase was outsatnding.
The Worst experience was with a GM dealer(LeeMunro) Paris,On.
I really thought the old school sales tatics had died years ago, not in this dealership.The games and the intimidation they tried to pull were brutal.
The sales manager is a piece of work, the waiting games, the greasy car salesman phrases and when trying to negotiate they wanted us to give them $1000 before they would look at an offer. That's a first for me.
I suggest to anyone looking for a GM product, avoid this place.
 

Hey neighbour from Paris, Ontario. I don't live too far from you (Tri-Cities)

Yeah, I agree. They run the spectrum. I find that, although not always, you will find less of the greasy car selling practices in the "higher end" dealerships (such as BMW, Acura, Lexus, etc.) That's actually contrary to what I thought. (I thought the "higher-ends" would be more snobby.)

[johngenx]

Sales practices?  The WORST dealer I have ever been to is a tie between Weber Motors (Mercedes) and David Morris Mercedes in Edmonton.  In the fall of 1997 I decided to treat myself to a new C-Class.  I'd been buying low mileage used MB's but decided to take the depreciation hit and buy a new one.

Tuesday: Visit Weber and speak with Roland.  Indicate that I'm VERY interested in a new car (driving a 190E) and would like to make an appointment, as my wife and I have very busy schedules.  We arrange to meet at 5:00pm on Thursday.  I explain that I want to test drive a C230 and if I like it, I'm prepared to sign that evening.

Thursday, 5:00pm.  Roland is busy with another customer.  Fine, we'll wait.  5:30 comes and goes and now it's close to 6:00pm.  Roland is finally free.  I wonder which car he has for us to test drive, don't see any out front.  He says he doesn't have a C230 ready, but will go get one.  6:30 comes and goes.  7:00, he finally has a C230 with a plate on it.  I've frittered away two hours and I'm a little pissed off, so I explain that we're considering trading in our 190E, and could he appraise it while we're out on the test drive.  We're gone to about 7:45 and come back to see my car sitting exactly where it was.  Now I'm chuffed.

8:00 and Roland and the sales manager appraise my car.  8:15 and Roland, my wife, and I sit in his office.  I make him an offer and we write it up.  We talk about the fact that they don't have my desired car in stock and will have to order it.  I knew this, no problem.  I make them a not-too-far-off offer, including my trade.  He doesn't want my trade, so we change the offer right away (I have private buyer if needed) and he indicates that I will have to give him a $1500 deposit.  Now, I assume that this is to order the car.  I say "great" to them accepting my offer, and suddenly we're going downhill.  He says I have to give him $1500 before they'll CONSIDER my offer.

8:45, we drive away from Weber, Roland pissing away my entire evening and making me very angry.  I was having the 190E serviced there and was a known customer.  Depost for negotiating?  Get stuffed.  Five rasperries for being unprofessional and ignoring me, wasting my time, and using dirt-lot used-car selling techniques.

8:46, as we drive home I call Mike Edgar, one of the owners of Hyatt in Calgary.  I explain the car I'd like and I hear his calculator clicking away in the background.  Beofre I can say anything further, he comes out with "my best price, take it or leave it" which is about $200 less than I'd just offered Weber.  I say "sold" and call him the next day.  Deposit?  Nope.  Hassle?  Nope.  When the car arrived, I was flown down and picked up at the airport and my new car was gassed, spotless and ready for a great drive home.  They offered to truck it up, but I love to drive...

What happened at David Morris?  Well, just as I'd even begun the buying of the C230, I'd happened by David Morris and talked with Ken Lust, the sales manager.  What a rude arrogant a$$hole.  He tossed me a credit application and told me to come back and he might talk to me after it had been approved.

Anyway, my Dad didn't bother talking to Weber or DM and bought his MB at Hyatt.  My aunt bought hers there too.  My friend made the trip to Calgary and bought TWO MLs. The list of people that bypassed Edmonton alltogether and bought in Calgary is surprisingly long.

Back a couple months...

Before deciding on the C-Class, I'd tested the Audi A4 and BMW 318.  Both dealers fell all overthemseves trying to get my business.  The BMW dealer sent a salesperson with a car to my office so that I could test drive it without coming down.  Both those guys did a great job.

[mdxtasy]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,29391.0.html

[Julie]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,29391.0.html

  to that dealership.

I had that one condescending, disrespective treatment by that salesperson at my local Acura dealership. (which is the exact opposite of the treatment at where I ended up buying)

I was considering writing to the owner (but wondering if there were the all the same, and so would it be worth it, etc.) It ended up that the manager at the dealership where I bought informed the manager of my local dealership about this person's inappropriate behaviour.

The way they initially approached me at my local Lexus dealership was "cautious" too.... I don't dress with the least bit of sophistication, and I look like a kid to some. I can understand that. But it was respectful nontheless. After a few initial exchanges with respect to the car's characteristics, the saleslady lost all caution and was out to impress me. I can understand the cautious behaviour at first, but it needs to be respectful nonetheless until you see evidence that the person wouldn't deserve that.

[The Mighty Duck]

Don't really have a "worst" experience.  Probably would have to be the Vic Ford dealership: went in to take a look at a used Mustang, ended up test driving it.  Told the salesman straight up I would not be buying today under any circumstance.  He spent the next hour running to his manager and asking me "what can I do to make you sign today?"   

Best was Discovery Honda in Duncan.  Test drove both a used Civic SiR and a brand new Si (which the salesman knew I couldn't afford and wouldn't be buying).  Zero pressure, good test drive, and he knew his stuff.  That said, this same salesman never followed up on a car he was expecting to get in on trade that I was interested in, but there could be other reasons for that (i.e. the expected trade never happened).

I can also give a really good recommendation for our Pontiac dealer.  Zero pressure, really friendly salesman, great test drive.

[tpl]

Agincourt Autohaus.  leased an A4 there and the salesguy was very helpful...three tears later went back to maybe get another one and a sales person ( a very beautiful young woman) spent 1/2 an hour telling me how "sporty" and automatic transmission could be but no other useful information passed her lips..I left.   so good and bad.

Town and Country BMW The same sales guy as what at Audi had moved   just as helpful so bought my BMW their.  three years later went bvack to consider a new one and got a sales puke who actually tried to fake the numbers on the dealership's financing program....I left.   so good and bad.

Went to MB Canada on Eglinton, sales person took a cell call ( which sounded very personal from the side of it I heard)during our conversation about a B200 ( 75% serious conversation)  I left after about 6 minutes.

We are in the process of visiting nearly every non-big3 auto dealer in Guelph...will report

[ar_ken]

Funny how both my best and worst experience of dealership both came from Audi's.

Went to Agincourt Autohaus (in Scarborough, for those in the GTA) with my dad and spoke with this salesperson (Chow's his last name). My dad was looking for a used A6. After skimping through the few A6's he had on the lot, he started pushing this "offer" on a new A4 2.0T on my dad, saying how the rates are great (5.9%) and the monthly payments are low. Now my dad did not have the new A4 on his shopping list, due to the fact that he wanted a mid-size luxury car. Chow kept saying "ohh just test drive it first and then make up your mind". So he went ahead to grab a key, after my dad had given up on arguing with him about the A6.

Now came the good part. I'm not a small guy by any means (around 6 feet, 200 pounds), and guess what Chow did? Make me sit in the BACKseat. Apparently, he wanted to show my dad how many "toys" the car has. By now we should know, the backseat in most of the Euro entry-lux are not the best place to spend time if you are anything over 5'9 and 180 pounds. Then he started showing how the A4 has a 5-degree adjustable heated seats, and the sunroof can be opened at almost any level you want it to because it's controlled by a turning knob (any newer Audi/VW owners would know)... I couldn't help but jump from the backseat and say "oh yeh.. I saw these features in my buddy's VOLKSWAGEN GOLF as well... I see.." so at the end, long story short, we did not bother walking into that dealership no more. That's before Chow gave us a lowball offer for our trade.

Then we walked into the Pfaff Audi (in Newmarket, for those in the GTA). Was greeted by the salesperson Lawrence right away. Told him that we wanted to try out a used A6. Right away, went to grab the key, off we went. Me and my dad sitting in the front, he was sitting in the back, introducing the features (how a test-drive should be). Got my dad to drive on some straight smooth roads to test its cruising comfort. After about 20 minutes with my dad behind the wheel, Lawrence suggested me to give it a try. Pulled over to the side where Lawrence told my dad to purposely leave one of the rear wheels in a puddle of water with mud. I was confused on why would he do that... until I hop onto the driver's seat. Lawrence told me to go at full throttle as if my life depended on it. The car was perfectly stable and took off with no loss of traction or hesitation. Lawrence said "that's Quattro". He then guided me to navigate through some twisty roads to show off the car's handling. I drove back to the dealership with a smile on my face and I see a look on my dad's face saying "this will be the one".

Went back to the dealership, I thought we had to start the usual battle of "salesman vs. customer" in negotiation. Nope, he came back with an offer after talking to his sales manager. $9900 all inclusive was the offer for the deal (a 2003 M-B C320 Coupe trading for a 2003 Audi A6 3.0 Quattro). My dad thought it was a good deal, but did offered a bit lower ($9000). A few minutes later he came back, and the car was ours.

I know people will say that the way Lawrence arranged the test-drive was a sales tactic. Whatever it is, at least it got me sold. Showing off your car's ability (ie. cruising, Quattro AWD) and hiding its weakness (somewhat underpowered engine, he never mentioned anything about 0-100 with that car.. haha. not my dad's concern though) is the most basic sales tactic. Now I'm a happy passenger and occasional driver of a Audi A6.  

[airbalancer]

nice report

[Loudpedal]

Best dealer experience: Doner Nissan/Infiniti in Newmarket.

When looking for a car for my wife, our salesman (now General Manager) freely offered us keys to whatever we wanted (even on Friday afternoons to keep for the weekend).  We took several test drives at different times of day/night over the span of 2 weeks. 

As for the negotiation process, it was very painless.  We were dealing on a year end model (in October) and it was gone the night we came to deal.  We ended up getting a current year model for 1K more.  The dealer also offers lifelime Infiniti service loaners, as well as lifetime oil and filter changes (for $200)

As for service, it's been fantastic.  First off my wifes Infiniti G20 has been the model of reliability.  That's meant very few service loaners in 6 years (1 in fact).  No unwanted service pressue, no surprises, no issues.  Although after getting the oil changed once recently, the car was dripping oil from the drain bolt.  We took it back in and they freely said it would have been their fault and as such they put on a new oil pan for free.   No issues, no drama, they just did it. 

Service experiences like this make repeat customers, and I have recommended this dealer often. 

[Panzer]

I can understand the cautious behaviour at first, but it needs to be respectful nonetheless until you see evidence that the person wouldn't deserve that.

I agree on this one. I've always gone car shopping with jeans and some sort of shirt and never felt the need to walk into a dealership with a 3-piece suit.  As for the deposits when making an offer, I've seen a variety of numbers ranging from as low as $100 to as much as $1000.  Although I'm not sure as to why some ask for this, I don't think it's to "see whether you're a serious buyer" but more of a perceived psychological advantage from the salesperson's point of view since the potential customer already has mentally committed to buying the vehicle.  Once the deposit is made, some people may be too meek/shy to claim it back regardless if the dealership accepts the offer or not, and end up buying a car at a price they weren't happy with initially.

[UmroAyyar]

Dec 2004. I bought my previous car at Toyota on Front in Toronto, we were wandering around looking at the Matrix, Echo, Camry, after toiling around for 10 minutes sitting in the cars, no salesperson approached us, instead the General Manager approached us after watching from his office and sent a salesperson with us for test drives. After the drives, we sat down in his office and he gave us the financial deals on a new Matrix and a used 2002 Corolla (and VIN# to check their status)to consider overnight and come back the next day (Friday). A bit surprised we left having been walked out of a GM dealership (Addison on Bay). The next day we came back and signed the papers for certified 2002 Corolla, he also introduced us to the service manager the next day and had great service throughout. 2 other members of the family bought a Camry and leased a Matrix from the same dealership after that experience.

Oct 2006. The salesperson at the previous dealership (protégé of the GM) had become Business Manager(Rashid Anis) at Attrell Toyota in Brampton, was talking to him getting his ideas about fixing the holes, scrapes, dents on my car. He offered to trade-in that car with a 2006 lease-return Corolla/Camry, they had plenty of them and asked us to test drive anything we like. We test drove 2006 RAV4 V6, 2007 Camry LE & XLE, 2006 Corolla SE. Worked out a nice deal comparing new to lease-return and I took the lease-return base 2007 Camry with 22,000km on it. As soon as I buy a car, 2 other families change their cars as well, s, the Matrix owners bought a 2006 Avalon Touring (pearl white  ) a month later and another family member test driving mini-vans is looking to finalize a 2006 Sienna from the same person.

My good experiences. 

[DM]

Best:  both Attrell Toyota and Castle Honda in the GTA stand out for me - good salespeople, not pushy, worked hard to deliver cars quickly, as well - no waiting for a week.

Worst:  GTA Mazda dealerships, specifically Gyro and Airport.  I wanted a Mazda 3 sport so bad both times I went to buy a car, but both times I was treated so badly by the salesperson that I couldn't pull the trigger.  The first one didn't bother to introduce himself to my wife...that didn't impress her at all.

The next one asked me what kind of car I was currently driving.  I told him that I was driving an 05 Corolla that I wasn't trading in.  He then proceded to rip into the Corolla, even questionning (of all bizarre things) its reliability and resale value.

Now, I'm the first to agree that the Corolla isn't the most exciting car, but its not a Datsun.  Any car salesperson who makes derogatory comments about the car that you drove up onto the lot is totally out to lunch, especially when he's told that you're not trading it in.

Luckily, I'm more than happy with my 06 Civic coupe.  Liked it more than the 3 sport, but maybe that's because of how much better the dealership was.

[Giant Dwarf]

Isn't it astonishing how the dealership experience can still truly make or break a potential deal?  So many car companies are crying that they can't get sales, yet the personnel they've got selling the product are so often horrible!  Note to salespeople everywhere:  NEVER assume your products are good enough to simply sell themselves... particularly in the fickle, ever-changing auto industry!

ornuMA, my friend has had some very good experiences with Acura on Main.  I ended up buying a car years ago from Acura on Brant in Burlington (as have one or two of my colleagues) and found them to be pretty good.  Acura / Honda dealerships in general seem to be pretty decent in my limited experiences with them.

As mentioned recently elsewhere on the forum, I've had outstanding experiences at both Audi Centre Oakville and B-K BMW in Waterloo.  Budds' BMW is a close second to those two (both locations - Hamilton and Oakville).  Oakville Lexus was outstanding when I was in there too.  Competition is fierce in the luxo-market here and the market is strong enough locally for these dealerships to attract good sales staff and pay them well, so it works out in everyone's favour.

In recent years, the worst experiences I've had have been at Nissan-Infiniti dealerships and just last year at Budds' Subaru in Oakville.  3 different Nissan dealerships have outright ignored me regardless of how empty and 'un-busy' the dealerships /showrooms are.  Likewise at the Subaru dealership last year.  Sadly (for them), they had two 5-speed, black Legacy GT's that they were looking to clear out at the time sitting on the lot too -- precisely the car I went in to deal on.  Oh well, I'm happier with the Mazda I ended up with anyway (but who knows... maybe I'd have liked the Legacy enough that I wouldn't even have gone to look at the Mazda again?).

[bmorton]

The problem here in London is not enough local competition. I know people who set out to buy a BMW, Audi, Lexus or Volvo and were treated so shabbily by the local dealerships (each brand has only one dealer in town) that they went and bought the vehicle in K-W or Toronto. Even one of the two local Toyota dealerships is so notoriously bad that six people in my office alone (including me) have driven 50 km out of town to buy a Toyota from a small-town dealer. This dealer rarely advertises in London but word of mouth alone keeps him very busy with disgruntled Toyota buyers driving up from the city.

Normally you'd think a dealership would not want to drive people away, but if you have a monopoly on the local market I suppose enough people are willing to put up with the crap so they can buy locally.

Interestingly, other brands that also have only one local dealer (Subaru, Benz) offer an excellent sales experience, so it need not be the case that competition is always required for this to happen.

[claudster]

Worst sales experience:
Pinview Pontiac-Buick and Woodbine Pontiac-Buick. Both dealerships exemplified the shady, sleezy  image dealerships have. Was buying a Pontiac GP on the General Motors supplier X-plan. Corporate had already informed of how the program worked, and what I was supposed to pay. GM would give the dealership a kickback after delivery was taken.
At first both dealerships denied they offered it, then all of a sudden....it became available as I was walking out. Both dealerships worked the numbers in such a way as to try to cheat me. Pine View changed thier invoice to show $1500 more, and added all sorts of extra fees under the guise that thats the way the deal is done. Salesman became angry and beligerant becasue I asked too many questions and created undo pressure to buy. Then refused to sell me the car when I questioned his numbers against the numbers I was given and researched myself. Sales manager threw me out and said that GM had recently cancelled the program. Two weeks later, salesman called me and asked if I was still interested in the GM X-plan. How very strange?
Same type of situation at Woodbine. Here they admitted the X-plan existed, and were happy to sell me the car at the X-plan price. Thier tactic wa to double charge freight/air tax and admin. They even added an X-plan charge. Salesmen aganin became beligerant when I was looking at him writing up the offer and sking questions. Was told that it was the way GM told them to charge it.
Salesman used very high pressure. Then sent a closer to apply even more pressure. Finally walked out.
Sleezy salesman called me a week later and asked to come in and look at a red coup that just came in.
Wanted a red coup, but they kept trying to sell me a fully loaded sedan.
Letters to GM went unanswered. Except for the "thanks for answering the survay"
Worst service expreince:
Woodland Chev-Olds. Warrenty work an a Beretta. went out of thier way to tell me that it was a cheap car, and to expect those problems.
Frost Pontiac-Buick. Were excellent at first, but new owner thought that warrenty was a dirty word, and treated warrenty customers accordingly.
Pineview Pontiac Buick. Close to home. Service manager tried to BS me on warrent work. Got book out and found the page and recited it. Manager then muttered,"Damn!!He read the book" under his breath.
never went back to either of them. Found an excellent independant.

[ornuMA]

 It's great to read all the responses and to hear of others experiences with car dealers.
 claudster : It's amazing to read your story and see the many similarities there are between the the GM dealers I have dealt with and what you wrote(wow!). I mentioned Lee Munro Chevrolet, only because they where the worst by far, but not the only bad one.

I also wanted to give the Honda dealers we have purchased our Odyssey and Civic from, honorable mention.

[claudster]

Forgot to add Woodland Chev-Olds when dad bought the Alero. Closest dealership to home, so it was the first place he went. He's a bottom line cash negotiator-and they didn't like that. Gave him the information he needed to give a reasonable offer. According to him everything went well. Went with mom to pick out the colors, and all the paperwprk "dissappeared" and mistakes were made, and they would have to start all over again. This time the same offer was outragiously low, and he would have to come up at least $2000 for the offer to be concidered, plus they had a $500 admin fee.
Dad walked out, and a week later they called back and asked him to come in, and reminded him that their price was the best they could do.
Went to Dean Meyers and got the car for the original offer. The salesman played the usual games, but the deal went through without much of a fuss, and no one tried to pressure him, or backend the deal when the offer was accepted.

[Wolfe]

All right since everyone else in the GTA is b*tching I'll join in.

I've often delt with salespeople who know very little about the car they're trying to sell or try the usual manipulative tactics but the absolute worst dealership experience I've ever had, by a huge margin, was at Markham Mazda.

I was looking for a Protege5 at the time and called ahead to set up an appointment that afternoon to look at one that had been advertised. When I got there the salesperson I had scheduled the appointment with was busy so I was kept waiting for a half hour or so. Eventually the guy came to introduce himself and told me that the car I had called to see was "not available" but he had another Protege5 on the lot the only difference was that this one had 30 000 more kms. By this point I was annoyed and should have walked but I said OK I'll look at the car.

We walk out to the lot and as we walk up to the car I could see that one of the front tires was flat. I pointed this out and he muttered something about high school kids letting the air out. Then he turned around and yelled across the lot to the service bays for someone to refill the tire, no one seemed to pay any attention to him. We get to the car and he unlocks it but doesn't hand me the keys then he starts to ask me questions trying to gauge my interest in the car. I told him very clearly that I was concerned at the mileage, given that it was much greater than the car I thought I was going to see, and that I would have to take a close look to judge the condition of the car before taking it for a test drive. I thought this was quite reasonable but he thought otherwise and accused me of wasting his time and that I could look at the car but he would not let me drive it unless I bought it beforehand. At this point I'd spent about 45 minutes at the dealership and had only gotten to the point of standing next to a car that wasn't even the one I'd made the appointment to look at. The salesguy had spent less than 10 minutes with me but I was wasting his time? WTF? I was shocked. I told him that there was not the slightest chance in hell that I would ever buy from him and left. About halfway home the shock wore off and I was tempted to go back just to yell at the guy.

I was so mad that I didn't even look at another Protege5 at all.


Good experiences:

Wietzes Toyota - They were honest, competent, and low pressure. Not a great sales experience but a good one. I bought my RAV4 from them.

Saturn SAAB of Thornhill - I went there with my cousin to look at a used Acura EL. The salesperson was very knowledgable, low pressure, and personable. A great sales experience but my cousin didn't really like the EL very much.

Isn't it astonishing how the dealership experience can still truly make or break a potential deal? So many car companies are crying that they can't get sales, yet the personnel they've got selling the product are so often horrible! Note to salespeople everywhere: NEVER assume your products are good enough to simply sell themselves... particularly in the fickle, ever-changing auto industry!

  A horrible dealership experience will lose sales no matter how good the product. A great sales experience won't matter if the product isn't right/good enough.

In my (limited) car buying experience the Toyota dealership made the sale because they had a good product and a straightforward, competent sales experience. They weren't awesome but they didn't chase me away either.

[airbalancer]

In Cobourg, I have 5 GM dealers within 20 KM, and the area pop is around 50,000
At two of the dealers the salesman can finish a deal without running to the sales manger for approval
I have never had much problems with warranty work
The only time was one SA who just came from a Honda dealer want me to get serviced work on the brakes on 8,000 km truck.
She said that was how Honda made most of their money.