Topic: Winter tire for a Magnum

[blackdiamond]

Hi,

I bought a set of Scorpion Ice&Snow for my Magnum RT a few weeks ago and had the opportunity to try them out in bad conditions last weekend.
We got a snow storm in Calgary that left the roads covered by a layer of ice with some snow on top. I thought "Great, I get to try my new winter boots!!!". Boy, was I surprised: the car was all over the place. Everytime I touched the brakes, the ABS would come on. At every intersection, if I was turning left or right, the car would drift in during the turn, even though I wasn't touching the throttle.
Even on hard-packed snow, the car didn't feel planted or sure-footed.
I have had H-rated winter tires before, but they were on a much smaller car, so were my expectations to high? Would any H-rated winter tire exhibits the same handling charateristics as the Scorpions? Would the Toyo Open Country G-02+ be better? Or the Blizzak LM-25 4x4?

The car will be driven to the mountains on a regular basis and after last weekend's experience, I am having second thoughts. Would going to a Q-rated tire like the Blizzak DMZ3 or the Latitude X-Ice?

Thanks a lot in advance for your thoughts.
Blackdiamond

[ktm525]

Hi,

I bought a set of Scorpion Ice&Snow for my Magnum RT a few weeks ago and had the opportunity to try them out in bad conditions last weekend.
We got a snow storm in Calgary that left the roads covered by a layer of ice with some snow on top. I thought "Great, I get to try my new winter boots!!!". Boy, was I surprised: the car was all over the place. Everytime I touched the brakes, the ABS would come on. At every intersection, if I was turning left or right, the car would drift in during the turn, even though I wasn't touching the throttle.
Even on hard-packed snow, the car didn't feel planted or sure-footed.
I have had H-rated winter tires before, but they were on a much smaller car, so were my expectations to high? Would any H-rated winter tire exhibits the same handling charateristics as the Scorpions? Would the Toyo Open Country G-02+ be better? Or the Blizzak LM-25 4x4?

The car will be driven to the mountains on a regular basis and after last weekend's experience, I am having second thoughts. Would going to a Q-rated tire like the Blizzak DMZ3 or the Latitude X-Ice?

Thanks a lot in advance for your thoughts.
Blackdiamond

If I owned a RWD Magnum in Calgary I would be running four STUDDED tires. My first choice would be the Pirelli Winter Carving or the Hakka 2's which are studdable. Is your magnum AWD or RWD?

[ovr50]

The man to answer your queries is Morty and he should be seeing this and reply within the next day, I would guess.

Couple quick points - you say a "set" of tires, you do mean 4 tires, don't you? My guess is also that your tires have a wide profile which is less efficient in snow/ice? Not sure a Magnum RT is going to be a great winter driver even with the most suitable snows on it. I have a Mustang GT and would not consider driving it in the winter, even with snows.

Good luck. 

[morty]

Winter tires will slip as they are not glue. The ABS will come on in instances where the Road is slippery enough to cause the tires to loose traction a little bit. What the winters should give you is predictability and control. I would also keep your foot on the gas when turning as this will allow the tires to bite in. The tire has received good reviews in winter conditions and on heavier vehicles/SUV's. Let me know after you have had the opportunity to drive a little longer.

[blackdiamond]

If I owned a RWD Magnum in Calgary I would be running four STUDDED tires. My first choice would be the Pirelli Winter Carving or the Hakka 2's which are studdable. Is your magnum AWD or RWD?

It is RWD. I have thought about the studded tires, but then the handling on dry road is really bad. If I am going to go down that path, I am thinking that a T or Q rated tire would be better for everyday driving.

[blackdiamond]

Winter tires will slip as they are not glue. The ABS will come on in instances where the Road is slippery enough to cause the tires to loose traction a little bit. What the winters should give you is predictability and control. I would also keep your foot on the gas when turning as this will allow the tires to bite in. The tire has received good reviews in winter conditions and on heavier vehicles/SUV's. Let me know after you have had the opportunity to drive a little longer.

Hi Morty,

thanks a lot for the reply. I understand what you are saying. My previous winter tires, i.e. Kuhmo KW17 and Blizzak WS-50, gave me the impression of sticking like glue. with each set of tires, the car they were mounted on felt really sure-footed, unlike the Magnum - despite me putting a couple of sand bags in the trunk. I agree with you that the reviews for these tires are really good, especially on SUVs, so it leaves me scratching my head. Anyway, I will drive them a big longer and see if I can get accustomed to their handling.

Thanks a lot.

[ktm525]

The reduced handling of studded tires on dry/wet roads is way overblown. You will find an anti-stud sentiment on this forum. Possibly could be because the forum sponser doesn't sell studded tires and in Ontario (where a lot of forum posters live) they are illegal. I used to own a Toyota Supra and the only way to get that RWD car through the Rockies in the winter was on studs.

Are you running 18" rims on your RT? What is the tire size?

[blackdiamond]

The reduced handling of studded tires on dry/wet roads is way overblown. You will find an anti-stud sentiment on this forum. Possibly could be because the forum sponser doesn't sell studded tires and in Ontario (where a lot of forum posters live) they are illegal. I used to own a Toyota Supra and the only way to get that RWD car through the Rockies in the winter was on studs.

Are you running 18" rims on your RT? What is the tire size?

I have to run 18" rims as anything smaller wouldn't not clear the brake calipers. The tire size is 235/60 28. I have never driven a car with studded tires, so I can't say anything about. It was my understanding that studded tires were for places like the Northwest Territories or the Yukon, where tires don't see any asphalt for 6 months, but I am probably wrong.

[morty]

Like Ovr50 mentioned it could also be the vehicle. KW17 and WS50 on different cars and smaller sizes would definitely perform better than a 255/55/18. I hope that after you have had them for a time and adjusted your driving style to accomodate this type of tire, you will have a better opinion on them.

Keep us posted.

[ktm525]

The reduced handling of studded tires on dry/wet roads is way overblown. You will find an anti-stud sentiment on this forum. Possibly could be because the forum sponser doesn't sell studded tires and in Ontario (where a lot of forum posters live) they are illegal. I used to own a Toyota Supra and the only way to get that RWD car through the Rockies in the winter was on studs.

Are you running 18" rims on your RT? What is the tire size?

I have to run 18" rims as anything smaller wouldn't not clear the brake calipers. The tire size is 235/60 28. I have never driven a car with studded tires, so I can't say anything about. It was my understanding that studded tires were for places like the Northwest Territories or the Yukon, where tires don't see any asphalt for 6 months, but I am probably wrong.

NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA SUV are T-rated (190km/h) and are studdable.
so are NOKIAN HAKKAPELIITTA SUV 5
Inquire at your local Kal tire. You will not want for traction.

[blackdiamond]

Like Ovr50 mentioned it could also be the vehicle. KW17 and WS50 on different cars and smaller sizes would definitely perform better than a 255/55/18. I hope that after you have had them for a time and adjusted your driving style to accomodate this type of tire, you will have a better opinion on them.

Keep us posted.

Thanks a lot Morty. I guess my next question would be a stupid one, but I'll ask it anyway: do you think I would have better grip with T or Q rated tires?

[morty]

Not stupid...you would definitly get better grip with a Q or T-rated tire. Only a few options in T or Q. There is the Toyo G02+ and Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3.

As for studs...we do sell studdable tires and offer a studding service as well. Most of us live in the southern portion of the country where studs are generally not needed. This is not to say there aren't conditions where studs work very well. Just that in most cases with the capabilities of studfless tires, they are not required and actually decrease capability in some cases.

[ktm525]

I would argue about the need of studs in southern areas. Here in Calgary the cold snap has left the side streets absolutely polished ice. I would argue that the warmer winters we have been having the past few years make the ice situation worse. We used to get more compacted/loose snow on the side streets. Now it is ice. That being said I am running studless winters on the Volvo and it is OK but it is nowhere near the traction of the studded tires on the Dakota. Not even close.

[oversteer]

Assuming you're running a full set of four, the first thing I would verify is the inflation, and the second thing is alignment.  The behavior you described is kind of surprising, all things considered.  If there are no problems with inflation/alignment then either the conditions were REALLY bad (ice is ice no matter what, let's face it in true ice conditions studless tires won't match up with studded tires), or the Scorpion tire simply isn't a good fit for the Magnum.  good luck and keep us posted, should be interesting to see what comes of it.

[blackdiamond]

Hi,

after giving the Pirellis a change, but still finding them lacking in grip, I decided to phone Kal-Tire and they advised me to use the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25. I was a bit concerned, as they are far from cheap and there isn't much in term of reviews on them. After much fidgeting, I decided to go ahead and get them mounted and _oh-my-god_: traction. I have found traction!!!! When I picked the car up, the roads in Calgary were covered in white stuff and it has been snowing since, so I had a chance to really try them out, and they are awesome. They grip very nicely. Finally, I can stop at a stop sign without the ABS; I can turn at an intersection without the ESP coming on. They feel sure-footed and grippy. Everything I was expecting from a winter tire. With them, the Magnum, despite the power, is real easy to drive on loose and hard-packed snow.

I am not saying that the Scorpion Snow&Ice are bad, just that they are not a good fit for what we have in Calgary.

[morty]

Surprising you find such a difference. We sell both tires and have had positive feedback on both. Glad that you found an answer to the slide.

[blackdiamond]

Morty,

it is night and day!!!! The LM-25 feel a lot like the Kuhmos on the Mazda or the WS-50 on my wife's Neon. According to the guy at Kal-Tire, the issue with the Scorpions is that the rubber on the shoulders is too hard and the rubber on the center is too soft, so they don't really work for the Magnum. I don't know if that is true or not, but the ESP is barely coming on right now and same for the ABS.

[ovr50]

Glad you got it sorted out, Blackdiamond, and just in time for the ugly weather !! 

Were you able to negotiate a decent swap value for the Scorpions? I assume you returned to the same shop.

[blackdiamond]

Hi ovr50,

I got the LM-25 at a different shop, so no swap possible. What I am going to do is use the Scorpions during the summer. It won't be ideal, but at least I get some use out of them. I might also sell them too as someone on the lxforums expressed some interest for them.