Author Topic: Installing winter tires (Read 6672 times)

subiedubiedo · « **on:** October 04, 2006, 04:15:53 pm »

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am looking to try installing my own winter tires this year, both for convenience and to save some $$.

I drive a 2001 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon, and have winter tires sitting in my garage on steelies.

I know that I need to buy a 1/2 inch torque wrench, and a jack. I'll be checking Cdn Tire flyers over the next few weeks to find some deals.

Other than just pulling off the summers and sticking on the winters one at a time, is there anything else I should be looking out for? When I pull off the wheel, should I be cleaning, lubricating anything?

If they were balanced last year, do I need to worry about this? I only put 6000km on them last year, but will rotate front to back. Should I also rotate left to right?

Any advice would be appreciated!!

Maybe I am making too much of this..

Hal · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2006, 04:30:35 pm »

Subie,

I'm no mechanic, but I can tell you what I would do:

- Don't bother buying a torque wrench and jack unless you plan to do additional maintenance - use the jack and lug nut wrench that came with the car. If you tighten the nuts down as much as you can by hand (not using an extender), then you can be pretty sure you will be able to loosen them again with the same equipment on the side of a highway - at night, during a rainstorm of course

- Once the wheel is off, take a quick look at the brake rotor for any signs of grooving or uneven wear. Also look around the caliper for any signs of fluid leakage. Clean any built-up crud around the wheel bolts off with a wire brush.

- Balance should be fine as long as the wheel weights are still in place and you don't have any mud or other crud on the rims.

- I've never paid much attention to rotation so someone else can answer that better

I'm sure that you can get LOTS of good advice from more expert forum members here as well.

Cheers,
Hal

ppl4golf · « **Reply #2 on:** October 04, 2006, 08:14:45 pm »

Quote from: subiedubiedo on October 04, 2006, 04:15:53 pm

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am looking to try installing my own winter tires this year, both for convenience and to save some $$.

I drive a 2001 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon, and have winter tires sitting in my garage on steelies.

I know that I need to buy a 1/2 inch torque wrench, and a jack. I'll be checking Cdn Tire flyers over the next few weeks to find some deals.

Other than just pulling off the summers and sticking on the winters one at a time, is there anything else I should be looking out for? When I pull off the wheel, should I be cleaning, lubricating anything?

If they were balanced last year, do I need to worry about this? I only put 6000km on them last year, but will rotate front to back. Should I also rotate left to right?

Any advice would be appreciated!!

Maybe I am making too much of this..

I rotated the tires by myself a couple of times, it was a lot of work, I basically did it sort of to practise in case of a flat, I can then change it myself or help others.

I only use whatever came with the car, be sure to loosen up each nut a little bit before you jack up the car, and I needed all my bodyweight to move them and didn't want to dance on the wrench when the car was jacked up. The most important of course is to jack the car securely on flat surface. I also would check the tire pressure after all finished, and had my bicycle pump put to work if they are really, really low. It was a lot of work :~)

Craig · « **Reply #3 on:** October 04, 2006, 08:18:27 pm »

I have to admit, I don't use a torque wrench, either. The job is simple. If the tires are directional, you're limited to one rotation pattern. If non-directional, there are a couple patterns you can use, but write the chosen one in your manual because you'll forget next year. Suggested rotation patterns are often in your manual as well.

Learn the jack points on the car, and to make it faster, a cheap 2 1/2 ton hydraulic jack can be had for less than $50.

Loosen and tighten the nuts in a star pattern.

It's not a long job, and can usually be done faster than loading tires in the car and taking it to a shop and back.

Loudpedal · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2006, 08:45:07 pm »

A torque wrench is your friend. Unevenly torqued wheel nuts are one of the leading contributors to premature brake rotor warping.

dr_spock · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:03:43 pm »

Go with the torque wrench and read your car manual for the proper torque specs. Too tight and you can warp brake rotors as mentioned before. Too loose and you could be seeing your wheel bouncing down the road away from your vehicle. Be sure to tighten evenly in a star pattern. Don't forget to check the lugs again after driving a 100km or so.

Hal · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:10:56 pm »

I bow to superior knowledge

I will purchase a torque wrench myself before changing tires again. However, I would strongly suspect that an impact wrench would be required to create the type of torque differences necessary to warp a rotor. Hand-tightening to the point where you can't turn the wrench any more should result in fairly uniform torque over the nuts.

Cheers,
Hal

dr_spock · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:33:15 pm »

It depends on how strong you are and knowing when to stop turning. From an engineering point of view, bolts and nuts are designed to be tightened to specific torque value. Overtightening can weaken them and cause them to break. Undertightening can eventually cause them to come loose.

Hal · « **Reply #8 on:** October 04, 2006, 10:44:11 pm »

True enough. However, lazy mechanics with impact wrenches routinely tighten wheel nuts well past the recommended torque level without breaking the bolt. Tensile strength of steel bolts is very high.

Hal

morty · « **Reply #9 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:31:07 pm »

It is very easy to over-tighten a lug nut/bolt even by hand. Warped rotors is a common symtpom of over-tightening. These you can purchase a very inexpensive torque wrench that will ensure you tighten the bolts to the proper spec. Too tight and you make them difficult to remove, damge the rotors and possibly the stud. Too loose and not a good scenario. Skip starbucks for a week or dont spend quite as much at the bar and invest in a torque wrench.

$50 could save you a lot of grief and quite likely higher expenses down the road.

As for installing yourself...a good jack, jack stands and torque wrench are a must. Use a flat area and be sure to block the vehicle front and rear to ensure it doesnt roll over you or someone else. You may use the tools supplied with the vehicle toe remove the tire/wheel, but be sure to use the torque wrench when bolting back onto the vehicle.

Well I could go on and on, but here is a great link from the Wheel Industry Council (WIC) that has a thorough guideline for installing wheels on a vehicle.

Wheel Installation Guide

Hal · « **Reply #10 on:** October 04, 2006, 11:37:15 pm »

Morty,

Nice post - I'm convinced. Should be very helpful for the original poster.

Cheers,
Hal

subiedubiedo · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:06:27 am »

Thanks again to all for all the expert advice. Seems like a pretty easy job, but good to confirm the importance of a torque wrench.

I will check the owners manual for details on tire rotation and attaching the nuts in a star fashion.

If I have any problems along the way, I'll be back for more advice...

ktm525 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:38:24 am »

Quote from: subiedubiedo on October 05, 2006, 11:06:27 am

Thanks again to all for all the expert advice. Seems like a pretty easy job, but good to confirm the importance of a torque wrench.

I will check the owners manual for details on tire rotation and attaching the nuts in a star fashion.

If I have any problems along the way, I'll be back for more advice...

A simple 1/2" arrow indicator torque wrench is all you need and these are cheap. You should be able to find one at Sears for around $25. I also like to use a very thin film of anti-seize between the hub and the wheel tp prevent the "welding" that seems to occur. For whatever reason the last few cars have been a complete nightmare to get the wheels off. After removong the lug nuts the wheel will not budge. I either have to resort to banging with a 6' piece of 4"x4" or the feet. Not pretty when the car is on a jack.

subiedubiedo · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:08:22 pm »

Yikes - would have not expected that to happen.. and like you said, would be scared to be banging this when the car is jacked up.
What product to you use as an anti-seize agent? I suppose I would need to be careful not to overapply?
If the wheels come off easily should I need to worry about this?

mrthompson · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2006, 12:12:51 pm »

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/b_lubricants/a_lubricants/Permatex_Anti-Seize_Lubricant_a.htm

nan_wpg · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:37:19 pm »

If there is a Princess Auto nearby it would be worth a visit. Very good pricing on a 1/2 torque wrench. 40 dollar range.
Or they also sell individual sockets that have a preset torque at which they slip, or click.

mar1990 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:57:22 pm »

Yikes - would have not expected that to happen.. and like you said, would be scared to be banging this when the car is jacked up.

Be sure to use jack stands expecially if you lift the entire front or rear end of the car. More important than a torque wrench IMHO.

What product to you use as an anti-seize agent? I suppose I would need to be careful not to overapply?

Crappy tire sells it. Its usually grey or silver in colour. If bought in a small can it usually comes with an applicator brush in the lid. It also comes in a spray can with a foam applicator on the tip. A thin coat should be enough. You are just trying to prevent the rust on the rotor from bonding with the rust or aluminum of the rims.

If the wheels come off easily should I need to worry about this?

No not really. If you had to pound them off, you will probably see an imprint in the rust of where the rims mounted onto the hub of the rotor. (between the studs). This is where you would apply the anti sieze. This should be the only place where the rim makes contact with the rotor.

The only vehicle I had an issue with this is my 03 corolla with alloy rims.

And dont forget to loose the wheel nuts before lifting the tires off the ground.

tpl · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2006, 06:51:07 am »

Crappy tire sell the Permatex antiseize. a can will last 20 years at least. You only need a tiny smear and DO NOT get it on the stud/bolt threads or anywhere near the brake disks. Just where the wheel itself touches on the hub. For hub centric wheels ( most OEM) where the wheel sits on a lip protruding from the hub then this where it should go.

Altair 4 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2006, 10:09:22 am »

Just to add a couple of cents worth - after recently rotating the tires on my car (five changes in 30 minutes!), I checked the torque of using the supplied tire wrench against using a torque wrench.

Interestingly, I found that the short tire wrench (with two "grunts") applies just about the perfect amount of torque as recommended by my owner's manual. I'm thinking there's a bit of engineering thought applied to the design length of the OEM tire wrench.

Of course, I have also found that occasionally I cannot break loose the bolts after having the tires rotated at the tire store. I usually come home, get out a piece of pipe to use as a cheater bar and loosen all of the bolts (VW) or nuts (Honda) and then retighten them using the OEM wrench. That way, I can always get the wheel off the car should I ever have a flat away from home. I've never had a warped rotor or ever found the fastener coming loose on its own...

morty · « **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:57:03 pm »

2 grunts is not a very accurate method of tightening

Your 2 grunts are probably not the same as someone else's 2 grunts (just an assumption). If the lugs are over tightened the wrench will click the same as if it is torqued to the correct spec. So, you have no real way of knowing if they are correctly torqued unless you used the torque wrench in the first place to tighten it.

Just a question...if you have the torque wrench to do this this test...why not use it to tighten to proper torque instead of using the 2 grunt method?