Topic: 1997 Acura 2.2 CL for $7700

[acuragirl]

Hi there, I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with this car.  I put in an offer, $200 above list for an Acura 2.2L CL. He was asking $7500, and had another offer at list.  After testing an 01 Mazda 626, a 98 Mazda protege, a 00 Honda Civic EX, a 94 Civic SI, an 01 Echo and a 97 Jetta GT, I felt that the value in the Acura was well above and beyond what was available in these other cars. My price range was $5K to $8K tops.   

The Acura has 190K Kms, BUT has been meticiously maintained. I did a carfax report on it and it has been regularly serviced.  The owner seemed to be the type who was very careful about taking care of his car, and he was only the 2nd owner.

The owner has put 4 new tires on it as of last week.  He also replaced the CV joints and had the most recent major maintenance schedule done.  He has a current saftey inspection so the car is ready for insurance.  It really is spotless inside and out, except for a couple of rust bubbles on the pass. door that will have to be dealt with.  It comes with leather, sunroof, power everything, 5spd tranny, and a kick ass stereo.  I know the book value is less than this, esp. for high kms, but considering the age of the car, it really doesn't have high kms.  Only about 20K a year.  It drove like a caddy..so smooth and quiet compared to all the others. It really felt like a car that I would look forward to driving each day.  I would apprecieate any comments from anyone who has owned one or knows anything about Acuras. 

All the reviews point to Acura being reliable and high quality.  Compared to what else was out there in Calgary, this car really stood out. I have one day to change my mind.

Thanks in advance,

Acuragirl

[rrocket]

Yep..I looked at these too when I was car shopping.  Quality car, in and out.  As long as the timing belt is done on a regular basis, these engine really do last.  Be sure he has changed the timing belt and water pump..I shiould have been done once by now, possibly twice.  If not, you're looking a several hundred to have this done.  On these engines this is a MUST.  Otherwise, not a bad car at all.  In my lemon-aid, it gets 4 out of 5 stars as a used buy, and the only item to keep an eye on is the automatic transmission..be sure it has been serviced regularly.  Good luclk...

[acuragirl]

The owner did mention that the timing belt should prolly be done after 200K kms.  It's at 190K right now.  It is a 5spd manual tranny...  The carfax was clean, and showed regular servicing up until 2004.  I don't know why the recent services don't show up..unless he didn't do anything.  I've asked him to show me some service records after 2004.  I have had a sleepless night worried about my descision...prolly just buyers remorse.  I really was only comfortable with paying $7000 for a 10 year old car with 190K kms..but I am stretched out paying another $700.  I am trying to convince myself that it is worth it because Honda has a good reliability record, and the car was immaculate.  I am hoping to keep the car for at least 5 years.

[Bullet Blue]

I own a 1997 2.2CL 5 speed.

I've had the car for about a year and a half now. Problems I've had with it include:

-Seized sliders
- Right and left wheel speed sensors replaced
-Problem with the circuit that powers the high beams and DRL's/
- Left rear caliper seized


This was all last year though, and I have had no problems since. Watch out for rust especially in or around the rear quarter pannels. Make sure you do some sort of rust prooding annually.  Most of the problems I had related to the rear wheels/brakes etc. So check those too. Timing belt and water pump should also be checked.

It's a great car. Hanldes decently for an FWD car and space is adequate. I wouldn't worry too much about the high kms, especially if they are highway. I have 205,000 kms on mine to date and most are highway as well.

I will post some of my pros and cons of the car later, I don't have time right now. But hope this helped.

[articsteve]

The owner did mention that the timing belt should prolly be done after 200K kms.  It's at 190K right now.  It is a 5spd manual tranny...  The carfax was clean, and showed regular servicing up until 2004.  I don't know why the recent services don't show up..unless he didn't do anything.  I've asked him to show me some service records after 2004.  I have had a sleepless night worried about my descision...prolly just buyers remorse.  I really was only comfortable with paying $7000 for a 10 year old car with 190K kms..but I am stretched out paying another $700.  I am trying to convince myself that it is worth it because Honda has a good reliability record, and the car was immaculate.  I am hoping to keep the car for at least 5 years.

The owner did mention that the timing belt should prolly be done after 200K kms

The owner is telling you that the timing belt is due.  Add waterpump to that.  This car will also need a replacement clutch.

It may be a good car, but factor in $2500 for repairs as suspension is due for some parts.

What bothers me is the rust spot.   That is a very bad sign.  In light of that I would pass on this vehicle.

[Bullet Blue]

Ok I've got a bit more time, so Pros and cons:

Pros:

- Unique styling, they aren't everywhere on the roads
- Decent interior room
- Lots of punch at high rev (this can be a con depending on your driving style)
- Silky smooth gear shifts
- Decent on gas (it uses regular)
- Decent sized trunk for a coupe
- For a FWD car it handles quite well (although after testing a BMW a week ago, it made it seem like a boat)
- Mostly lives up to it's name in terms of reliability
- Good highwat cruiser

Cons:

- Insanely wide turning circle. Be prepared for lots of 3 point turns (I think Acura rectified this problem for MY98)
- Can be very prone to rust
- Fake wood looks pretty cheesy
- If you want cutomize the alloys, you have a limited selection due to it's rare bolt pattern
- Red turn signals

[acuragirl]

Thanks for your input.  The timing belt is due soon...the water pump was replaced 6 months ago.  It just had $1500 worth of repairs done at the Honda dealer in Calgary.  The seller's uncle who took my deposit confirmed this.  I pick up the car on Thursday, and all the reciepts should be with it.  Those repairs are CV boots/jonts, new oil pan, axle heads?  Not sure exactly, but something with axle.  I read over the saftey inspection and everything that needed to be repaired was.  It also has 4 new tires.

It does have silky smooth shifting, that I noticed during the test drive.

The rust spots aren't rusty yet, but need to be taken care of asap.  Hopefully there won't be too many more.

It's too late to back out now, I've paid the deposit, and I get the car on Thursday.  I liked your pro/con list.  I also like the fact that this car isn't seen everywhere.  I was really excited after I took the test drive, and my bf who was with me said he thought the car was worth $8K.  The mileage is mostly highway.

[Bullet Blue]

Congrats! I'm sure you won't be disapointed. I love mine. What colour is it? Don't forget to post pics, it's a rule of the forum 

[Julie]

Congratulations Acuragirl! Looks like you were careful (checking over inspection report and seeing if the things were repaired)

I sense you're a little anxious post-purchase, as you weren't planning to spend that much.

I think it's normal to sometimes have buyers remorse, but it's done, and you bought an Acura. It's a well-respected name.

Maybe this will help: You won't remember how much you spent for as long as you remember how much you like the item you bought, if you bought something you feel good about. EDIT: I didn't say that right, but it means you'll remember liking it longer than remembering its price. Whereas if you bought something soley on price, you will keep thinking, "Darn, I should have spent that much more to get what I really liked."

Cheers,
Julie.

[acuragirl]

Thanks guys, and girls...I have been suffering from some buyers remorse..as I didn't want to spend that much.  I wanted to spend $6K and use the remaining $$ to buy a much needed fridge..  That's ok, as I am also consoling myself that for the first time EVER in my life (I'm 40) I will be driving a NICE car, that is FUN to drive, and that I will look forward to driving every time I get into it. 

And I bought this car with money I saved from working my ass off in a man's work.  I'm happy that it is paid for, as I was really getting treated badly when I wanted to finance a Yaris.  In the end I thought: Screw you, I'm not paying your dealer BS fees, taxes etc. etc. and exorbitant interest ratesI'll just get an older car. 

I pick up the car on Thursday so I will let you know how it goes...I feel like a freakin teenager, you know getting my first car...lol.

I will figure out how to post a pic and post one hopefully tonite.  Ciao!

[mdxtasy]

Congrats acuragirl.  The CL's are nice cars.  A fancy Accord and like BB says, a little more exclusive.  Honda's have extremely high reliability ratings and I've been through 4 Honda/Acura products myself.  I really enjoy their cars...and none have ever given me grief.  With any older car, repairs might be required but from the sounds of it, you're getting a pretty decent car that was well cared for. 

Pics would be great.

[acuragirl]

I posted a pic to that fellow with the email cartalkcanada@gmail.com...I can't figure out how to resize the pic to post it in the pic thread.  There's no instructions in the pic thread to do that either.

[articsteve]

Thanks for your input.  The timing belt is due soon...the water pump was replaced 6 months ago.  It just had $1500 worth of repairs done at the Honda dealer in Calgary.  The seller's uncle who took my deposit confirmed this.  I pick up the car on Thursday, and all the reciepts should be with it.  Those repairs are CV boots/jonts, new oil pan, axle heads?  Not sure exactly, but something with axle.  I read over the saftey inspection and everything that needed to be repaired was.  It also has 4 new tires.

It does have silky smooth shifting, that I noticed during the test drive.

The rust spots aren't rusty yet, but need to be taken care of asap.  Hopefully there won't be too many more.

It's too late to back out now, I've paid the deposit, and I get the car on Thursday.  I liked your pro/con list.  I also like the fact that this car isn't seen everywhere.  I was really excited after I took the test drive, and my bf who was with me said he thought the car was worth $8K.  The mileage is mostly highway.

the water pump was replaced 6 months ago

How do you know?  It makes zero sense to change a water pump and not replace the timing belt which needs to be removed to replace the water pump.  No shop would do this.  In the 2.2 you will need the T-belt and the balance belt and both tensioners and some rollers.  It is not a cheap job.  If either break the car is worthless.  The word "soon" does not apply.  It must be done before it begins to freeze out.

I hope that your car is dark green because the rust cannot be stopped or repaired.  It will be throughout the vehicle just under the surface.

Obviously if the previous owner had of done the clutch they would be promoting it.  Consider that imminent and $1K.

If this car was a totally rust free car then it might be worth the 2k plus repairs that it needs now.  As it is now it is not worth much I am truly sorry to say.

The Yaris is exactly what you needed.  A car that will go 10 years with very little significant repair.  What was the problem with the financing?  They bugging you about your credit score?  That can be infuriating but keep the big picture in mind.

You got into a terrible deal.  Forgo the deposit which I hope was no more than $200. and get a base Yaris or better yet a Honda FIT and live happy.  You are going to get killed on this 97 Acura.  It is what we call in the wholesale car trade "rough".

[mdxtasy]

I posted a pic to that fellow with the email cartalkcanada@gmail.com...I can't figure out how to resize the pic to post it in the pic thread.  There's no instructions in the pic thread to do that either.

Looking forward to the pics....you can also see BB's CL in the Reader's Rides section.  I'm sure your car will be posted there too. 

[Julie]

Thanks guys, and girls...I have been suffering from some buyers remorse..as I didn't want to spend that much.  I wanted to spend $6K and use the remaining $$ to buy a much needed fridge..  That's ok, as I am also consoling myself that for the first time EVER in my life (I'm 40) I will be driving a NICE car, that is FUN to drive, and that I will look forward to driving every time I get into it. 

And I bought this car with money I saved from working my ass off in a man's work.  I'm happy that it is paid for, as I was really getting treated badly when I wanted to finance a Yaris.  In the end I thought: Screw you, I'm not paying your dealer BS fees, taxes etc. etc. and exorbitant interest ratesI'll just get an older car. 

I pick up the car on Thursday so I will let you know how it goes...I feel like a freakin teenager, you know getting my first car...lol.

I will figure out how to post a pic and post one hopefully tonite.  Ciao!

In my experience, although I looooove Toyotas, and have had 2, it's the Toyota dealers that are most snob!

 

[Julie]

Thanks for your input.  The timing belt is due soon...the water pump was replaced 6 months ago.  It just had $1500 worth of repairs done at the Honda dealer in Calgary.  The seller's uncle who took my deposit confirmed this.  I pick up the car on Thursday, and all the reciepts should be with it.  Those repairs are CV boots/jonts, new oil pan, axle heads?  Not sure exactly, but something with axle.  I read over the saftey inspection and everything that needed to be repaired was.  It also has 4 new tires.

It does have silky smooth shifting, that I noticed during the test drive.

The rust spots aren't rusty yet, but need to be taken care of asap.  Hopefully there won't be too many more.

It's too late to back out now, I've paid the deposit, and I get the car on Thursday.  I liked your pro/con list.  I also like the fact that this car isn't seen everywhere.  I was really excited after I took the test drive, and my bf who was with me said he thought the car was worth $8K.  The mileage is mostly highway.

the water pump was replaced 6 months ago

How do you know?  It makes zero sense to change a water pump and not replace the timing belt which needs to be removed to replace the water pump.  No shop would do this.  In the 2.2 you will need the T-belt and the balance belt and both tensioners and some rollers.  It is not a cheap job.  If either break the car is worthless.  The word "soon" does not apply.  It must be done before it begins to freeze out.

I hope that your car is dark green because the rust cannot be stopped or repaired.  It will be throughout the vehicle just under the surface.

Obviously if the previous owner had of done the clutch they would be promoting it.  Consider that imminent and $1K.

If this car was a totally rust free car then it might be worth the 2k plus repairs that it needs now.  As it is now it is not worth much I am truly sorry to say.

The Yaris is exactly what you needed.  A car that will go 10 years with very little significant repair.  What was the problem with the financing?  They bugging you about your credit score?  That can be infuriating but keep the big picture in mind.

You got into a terrible deal.  Forgo the deposit which I hope was no more than $200. and get a base Yaris or better yet a Honda FIT and live happy.  You are going to get killed on this 97 Acura.  It is what we call in the wholesale car trade "rough".

Wow, this sounds serious.

I'm not a car expert; Artic Steve is in the business.

Thursday's the day you pick it up? Sorry to sound worried, but this sounds worrisome, and Thursday's not here yet (so you can still technically back out, losing your deposit.)

[rrocket]

Thanks for your input.  The timing belt is due soon...the water pump was replaced 6 months ago.  It just had $1500 worth of repairs done at the Honda dealer in Calgary.  The seller's uncle who took my deposit confirmed this.  I pick up the car on Thursday, and all the reciepts should be with it.  Those repairs are CV boots/jonts, new oil pan, axle heads?  Not sure exactly, but something with axle.  I read over the saftey inspection and everything that needed to be repaired was.  It also has 4 new tires.

It does have silky smooth shifting, that I noticed during the test drive.

The rust spots aren't rusty yet, but need to be taken care of asap.  Hopefully there won't be too many more.

It's too late to back out now, I've paid the deposit, and I get the car on Thursday.  I liked your pro/con list.  I also like the fact that this car isn't seen everywhere.  I was really excited after I took the test drive, and my bf who was with me said he thought the car was worth $8K.  The mileage is mostly highway.

the water pump was replaced 6 months ago

How do you know?  It makes zero sense to change a water pump and not replace the timing belt which needs to be removed to replace the water pump.  No shop would do this.  In the 2.2 you will need the T-belt and the balance belt and both tensioners and some rollers.  It is not a cheap job.  If either break the car is worthless.  The word "soon" does not apply.  It must be done before it begins to freeze out.

I hope that your car is dark green because the rust cannot be stopped or repaired.  It will be throughout the vehicle just under the surface.

Obviously if the previous owner had of done the clutch they would be promoting it.  Consider that imminent and $1K.

If this car was a totally rust free car then it might be worth the 2k plus repairs that it needs now.  As it is now it is not worth much I am truly sorry to say.

The Yaris is exactly what you needed.  A car that will go 10 years with very little significant repair.  What was the problem with the financing?  They bugging you about your credit score?  That can be infuriating but keep the big picture in mind.

You got into a terrible deal.  Forgo the deposit which I hope was no more than $200. and get a base Yaris or better yet a Honda FIT and live happy.  You are going to get killed on this 97 Acura.  It is what we call in the wholesale car trade "rough".

I STRONLY dispute the pricing of the engine parts.  I can get a complete OEM Honda "tune-up" kit for about $200 Canadian.  This kit includes:

Timing Belt
Balance Belt
Balance Shaft Seal
Balance Shaft Seal Retainer
Oil Drive Gear Seal
Front Main Crank Seal
Cam Seal
Valve Cover Gasket
4 Spark Plug Tube Seals
Water Pump

The "book" time from the dealer for doing the timing belt/water pump is approx. 4 hours.  And there's no reason this has to be done at a Honda dealer.  This engine is so common, any decent garage could do it for less.

As far as the rust, it's impossible for you to say with accuracy that the entire area will be rusted.  That's simply NOT TRUE.  I looked at several 2.2 CLs, and many of them had these exact same rust areas.  It's a common problem with these cars.  Many of them were just bubbles, and the damage was localized.  It is true that the rust may continue to spread, but this can be lessened with a bit of good bodywork.  I know..I've done this on a couple of cars without the areas getting worse.

Acuragirl...if you want, I will personally get you the parts, and ship them your way ASAP as long as you pay me   Anyways..just let me know.  I think you made an OK purchase, and this car will give you pleasure for some time to come.....Cheers...

[articsteve]

You conveniently omitted the most 2 expensive parts; both tensioners.  Then there is a matter of the rollers.  This is a ten year old vehicle, 190,000 km run in a severe service climate.  She will also need a water pump.  If you can't do the labour yourself then there is little point of somebody like the poster supplying the parts because there will be NO GUARRANTEE if something fails and takes out the motor.  Shops do not guarantee their work if a part fails which is supplied by the customer.  Why should they 

As for rust and body work    There is no end to body work and the cost makes this purchase moot. Untreated ten year old Japanese cars circa 1990's driven in road salt are not usually great buys for the very reason of rust.  Body, fender, trunk lid rust is uncontrollable once it begins. 

200,000 km/ten years is when everything begins to go; strut mount bearings, starters, rads, alternators, cats, brake lines, fuel lines, you name it.  In many instances that is no problem if the car can go another 10 years/200,000 km.  However, once internal rust takes hold the car is next to worthless.

We get so many young ladies and not so young ladies looking at really used cars and our advice is always the same; forget the used stuff and get use to paying $350 per month for 5 years and drive something that is ultra reliable and inexpensive to operate.  Repairs rates today have gone into the stratosphere.  Women get killed on used cars because of this.

[rrocket]

You conveniently omitted the most 2 expensive parts; both tensioners.  Then there is a matter of the rollers.  This is a ten year old vehicle, 190,000 km run in a severe service climate.  She will also need a water pump.  If you can't do the labour yourself then there is little point of somebody like the poster supplying the parts because there will be NO GUARRANTEE if something fails and takes out the motor.  Shops do not guarantee their work if a part fails which is supplied by the customer.  Why should they 

As for rust and body work    There is no end to body work and the cost makes this purchase moot. Untreated ten year old Japanese cars circa 1990's driven in road salt are not usually great buys for the very reason of rust.  Body, fender, trunk lid rust is uncontrollable once it begins. 

200,000 km/ten years is when everything begins to go; strut mount bearings, starters, rads, alternators, cats, brake lines, fuel lines, you name it.  In many instances that is no problem if the car can go another 10 years/200,000 km.  However, once internal rust takes hold the car is next to worthless.

We get so many young ladies and not so young ladies looking at really used cars and our advice is always the same; forget the used stuff and get use to paying $350 per month for 5 years and drive something that is ultra reliable and inexpensive to operate.  Repairs rates today have gone into the stratosphere.  Women get killed on used cars because of this.

The tensioners are only $50 for both (timing belt tensioner+balance shaft tensioner).  My price above included the water pump.  So for everything it's approx. $250.  And that is totally untrue that if you bring the parts to the dealership, that they won't guarantee it.  If the parts are unopened in the Honda packing bags, you're good to go.  Perhaps the dealers in your area just like to gouge or stick it to the customer.  Again..impossible to say that the rust is "uncontrollable" once it starts.  It really depends how bad it is.  If it is small, localised blistering, then I disagree with your statement.  If it's starting to come off in ply's, then you ARE screwed.  But a blister is defnitely easily fixed, as I have done it before with no further spreading.  For sure things WILL go on a 10 year old vehicle.  But unfortunately, it sounds like she can't afford a newer/more expensive vehicle.  This Acura is essentially a Honda Accord Coupe, and these are some of the most reliable, lasting cars on the road regardless of KMs on them.  While this car isn't mint, I think she did OK considering the money she had.  It's not perfect, but not horrid either.  For sure the price seems more expensive than what you'd pay in Toronto, but different areas of the country sometimes have vastly different pricing.  I would suspect that the price she pais is the "going rate" in her area.  In TO, a CL with similar mileage/condition to the one she looked at goes for $6500-$7000.  I looked at a couple 2 weekends ago.....

[tortoise]

As for rust and body work    There is no end to body work and the cost makes this purchase moot. Untreated ten year old Japanese cars circa 1990's driven in road salt are not usually great buys for the very reason of rust.  Body, fender, trunk lid rust is uncontrollable once it begins. 

Do they even salt the roads in Alberta?

Regardless, congrats Acuragirl.