CD Article: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid

[CD_Editor]

Test Drive:

Hybrids are the buzz with rising fuel prices, but you need to shop wisely, says Assistant Editor, Jil McIntosh. The new Honda Civic Hybrid is now Canada's least expensive hybrid, but "you have to adapt your driving to a hybrid; expect the hybrid to adapt to you, and you'll probably be disappointed with the fuel results," she says.      More...

[Stuff]

I considered a Hybrid when purchasing a car earlier in the year, and quickly scrapped the idea after realizing the gas savings would take me over 20 years to make up the premium I paid for the car. Unless my math is really bad! 

[jww]

I considered a Hybrid when purchasing a car earlier in the year, and quickly scrapped the idea after realizing the gas savings would take me over 20 years to make up the premium I paid for the car. Unless my math is really bad! 

Hybrids tend to be more about 'conscious decisions' - look at all the celebs who have a Prius in their driveway - right beside the gas-guzzlin' Hummer, Bimmer, or .... whatever.

[Bullet Blue]

For some reason I thought the Civic Hybrid was available with an MT. Was that just the last gen?

[enzo]

Whenever I read a review about a hybrid, the reporter mentions that "you have to drive it differently" to get full advantage. My thoughts are - if you drove a conventional car the same way, wouldn't you also get those advantages?

Given this is a civic, what would be really useful, would be to take a "standard" civic and a hybrid, and get 2 drivers to drive the same course, same speeds, essentially tailing each other for 2 or 3 hundred kilometers.

That way we are comparing apples to apples, instead of comparing the on-paper specs of one vehicle, to the or-read behaviour of another.

[safristi]

Welcome Uncle ENZO......I agree...can I challenge yer Ferrari with my Millenia...fer mileage that is.....

[The Mighty Duck]

For some reason I thought the Civic Hybrid was available with an MT. Was that just the last gen?

Yup...  the old Hybrid was available in stick.  The only hybrid on the market with a MT option, too.  But the new one is CVT only.

As for the hybrid...  no, thanks.  The regular Civic is good enough on gas as it is, and costs a lot less too. 

[IMA-Man]

Jill is right in her description of the economy hybrids currently available to the public:  In order to extract maximum benefit from this technology the driver must re-learn the basics of driving for efficiency.

The author managed to obtain only 6l/100km which is pretty sad and hardly surprising as she was clearly unable to extract the benefits of this technology.  You pay extra for the gauges but yout are unable to read them.

As a personal note: I Achieve 4.6 l/100km in the city.  My highway drives (at 100km/h) net me 3.9l/100km or more.  This is not unusual. Please see the following for proof:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/

For any honda civic hybrid owners who want to fully exploit the car's features and capabilities (without being a road hazard of course), please see the following article:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306

Now, let us not forget that there are several different types of hybrid platforms, and these regardless of whether its is HSD or IMA can be characterized as either performance or economy hybrids.  Economy hybrids will always get better fuel economy than their gas-only counterparts when driven the same way.   Performance hybrids (accord, lexus) will always perform better than their gas only counterparts.

Even if you apply hypermiling techniques to gas-only vehicles they will never match the potential fuel economy of an economy hybrid.  In part because, hybrid vehicles provide enough technology and instrumentation for the smarter driver to learn and improve.  As Jill correctly stated, hybrids are not good vehicles for people who are going to ignore its features and abilities.  For that, they are better off with another more traditional vehicle.

Another point Jill is wrong about:

The 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid will on average perform better in the highway than it does in the city.  The idea that hybrids do better in the city is typical of the HSD technology provided by Toyota (Prius II as an example) mainly because HSD allows for battery only operation at lower speeds.  The 2006 HCH does not.

Yet another point that Jill forgot to mention:

Whoever buys an economy hybrid (and knows what they are doing) does so to do something about our environment and to reap benefits in fuel savings along the way.  At the moment, Diesel powered vehicles are too dirty to be legal in some States in the US.  Maybe their manufacturers will clean up their act but that remains to be seen.

The Civic Hybrid and the Toyota Prius are two of the cleanest cars available to consumers today in North America- here's proof:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_cars.shtml

... and PLEASE -  if you wish to obtain further clarification on any of what I outlined above just let me know.  I will kindly respond to any reasonable & intelligent requests.



Cheers;

   MS

[safristi]

I'ma MAN TOO....... ...care ta share my LUFFAH!!!!

[H-IMA]

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[H-IMA]

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[Arthur Dent]

The long term maintaince costs would be number one worry with Hybrids. Seems like an aweful lot of extra complexity and weight (wtih current tech) for level of benefit.

One thing that also raises some curorsity for me is total environmental impact of a car as opposed to just running emissions. Is the total of emissions created during production of and running of a hybrid any better than non-hybrid. Obviously a hybrid car has more components and some of them like the batteries contain nasty chemicals and these components likely will need to replaced at least once over the vehicle's lifetime. I don't have any hard numbers on it but I suspect the Hybrid wouldn't look so wonderful ...

[Jameel]

I've got a great idea for Honda (or any other company that wants to use my idea):

1. Take a Civic
2. Replace the 1.8L with the only a 1.3L gas engine
3. Use the electronics / programming to turn the car off at idle and use the starter motor to start the car again when you release your foot of the gas.

Finally, the fact the regular Civic weighs about 180 to 200 lbs less than the Hybrid, I think you’ll get the same gas mileage.

It seems the only way the Hybrid really saves energy is :
1. at idle, it shuts down  (As I stated above you can use current electronics/programming to shutdown/startup the car)
and
2. when you are cruising at a constant speed it uses the electric motor to maintain that constant speed  (Unless you are travelling on long trips and you’ve got the cruise control it’s rare you are at a constant speed).


The entire thing about Hybrids is to give the public and the government a warm fuzzy feeling that we are doing something for the environment.  In fact it’s probably worse for the environment.  I may sound crazy, but stay with for a second.  Imagine the energy expended / required to build the extra electric motors and batteries.  Also think about the environmental impact of disposing of those big heavy battery packs.  I just hope they get recycled and not thrown away.

[H-IMA]

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[H-IMA]

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[Bullet Blue]

As for the hybrid...  no, thanks.  The regular Civic is good enough on gas as it is, and costs a lot less too. 

The regular Civic is definitely good on gas, but even if you mount a Scangauge II on its OBD port and drive it appropriately to achieve maximum fuel economy, you will not even come close to matching the fuel economy that the Civic Hybrid provides in the hands of the same person.
Its all about potential and the Civic Hybrid offers measurably higher potential for fuel savings than the comparable Civic EX.  The LX is not a fair comparison by virtue of its equipment (or lack of).

The hybrid does not cost much more than the Civic EX.  In fact many folks are able to get one for much less than $2500 above the price of an EX. 
If you live in Ontario, BC, NWT or Quebec you get a significant tax credit which will help make the Hybrid Civic even more appealing.

Cheers;

  MS

You quoted the wrong guy, I didn't say that.

[H-IMA]

...

[Jameel]

I've got a great idea for Honda (or any other company that wants to use my idea):

1. Take a Civic
2. Replace the 1.8L with the only a 1.3L gas engine
3. Use the electronics / programming to turn the car off at idle and use the starter motor to start the car again when you release your foot of the gas.

Finally, the fact the regular Civic weighs about 180 to 200 lbs less than the Hybrid, I think you’ll get the same gas mileage.

It seems the only way the Hybrid really saves energy is :
1. at idle, it shuts down  (As I stated above you can use current electronics/programming to shutdown/startup the car)
and
2. when you are cruising at a constant speed it uses the electric motor to maintain that constant speed  (Unless you are travelling on long trips and you’ve got the cruise control it’s rare you are at a constant speed).


The entire thing about Hybrids is to give the public and the government a warm fuzzy feeling that we are doing something for the environment.  In fact it’s probably worse for the environment.  I may sound crazy, but stay with for a second.  Imagine the energy expended / required to build the extra electric motors and batteries.  Also think about the environmental impact of disposing of those big heavy battery packs.  I just hope they get recycled and not thrown away.

Not true on all counts, my friend.

Both Honda and Toyota have battery disposal/reclaiming programs better than what has been around for the automobile industry for the last 20 years.  In fact, The batteries have been so trouble free (they were designed to last the life of the vehicle) that battery replacement cases are very rare  (we have more than 600,000 Toyota and Honda hybrids on the roads today).  Besides, recycling the batteries is actually an enticing venture because of the nickel that can be re-claimed.  The Lead-acid batteries that the world is afflicted by is far less attractive and more environmentally damaging.

On the engine issue:

The gas engine in the 2006 Civic hybrid is far more advanced than the regular 1.8l engine.  Here's a quick list of the features that are responsible for the high milleage:
-2 spark plugs per cillinder each firing in the most appropriate sequence to optimize combustion.
-The VTEC has essentially 3 profiles that contribute to reduced pumping losses when cillinder de-activation takes place.
...
...  hey, wait a minute, why don't I show you Huh   Here you go - a gift - for your viewing pleasure: (it saves me much typing).

http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705b/index.html



Cheers;

MS

IMA-MAn, you didn't address my other issues.

1. The amount of energy required to build those extra 600,000 (and rising) motors and battery packs require extra energy to produce. This has environmental impacts across the board, from the Hydro-electric / Nuclear / coal burning plant to the extra energy spent transporting the extra materials required for the motors and batteries, etc...

2. I realize the 1.3L engine is more advanced so why isn't that technology applied to the 1.8L (for better fuel economy) or keep the 1.3L without the extra electic motor?  This will drop 200 lbs of the Hybrid Civic which should be enough for the 90HP engine to move the car.

3. As I mentioned in my previous post, can't they shut the engine down at idle and restart the engine (on a non-hybrid).  Use the starter motor and a more durable battery? Won't that net you similar savings?

4. The electic motor (IMA) is used only to maintain current speed of the car? How often does this happen on a day-to-day drive? I'd say hardly ever.  Even on the highway you are constantly adjusting your speed. So, the process of "gliding" is negated.

Lastly I noticed that when the IMA is turning it is still coupled to the engine so doesn't that require more energy?

[H-IMA]

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[tpl]

I just do not see the point of driving a giant laptop battery around when if our legislators would pay attention we could have a nice simple   turbo diesel in a civic and attain quite close to the hybrids economy with 1/2 the complexity.

i am sure that the engineers at Honda have done a great job on the Hybrid but I will stick with a simpler conventional gas engine until I am allowed to buy a modern clean diesel.

I just checked and the Honda Civic diesel is a 2l

Model     Honda Civic 2.2 i-CDTi EX
Engine type   2204cc, four cylinders in line
Power/Torque 138bhp @ 4000rpm / 251 lb ft @ 2000rpm
Transmission Six-speed manual
Fuel/CO2    53.3mpg (combined cycle) / 135g/km of CO2
Performance  0-62mph: 8.6sec / Top speed: 127mph

The combined cycle fule economy is a mix, dont know what, of city, 90kph and 120kph