Topic: 01-05 Civic/EL - how to inspect engine air filter?

[locutusx]

Hi all,

Can you give me some quick tips on removing the engine air filter from my '02 Acura EL/Civic?

Basically I've been thinking of switching to the K&N "stock oem replacement filter" mainly due to its reputation for lasting much longer than the Honda OEM filter.

First, however, I would like to remove my honda air filter and inspect it... see how "dirty" my driving makes it.

Yes, I want to DIY and not take it to a money-wasting garage or something

[mdxtasy]

Are you doing a drop in?  Or a cone/intake?

If the drop in, take the cover off the air filter box, and drop in K&N replacement.  If you're doing the intake/cone, you may need to do more work. 

They don't last longer, you have to clean the K&N filters at the same intervals as replacing OEM filters, and the cleaning kit costs money.

[curls]

Are you doing a drop in?  Or a cone/intake?

If the drop in, take the cover off the air filter box, and drop in K&N replacement.  If you're doing the intake/cone, you may need to do more work. 

They don't last longer, you have to clean the K&N filters at the same intervals as replacing OEM filters, and the cleaning kit costs money.

In the long run, still hundreds cheaper than OEM air filters.  And I wouldn't trust a Fram air filter as far as I could throw it - they're trash.  OEM, K&N, or Wix (Napa Gold) is all I'd run.

[barrie1]

I think even the Fram filter is better then the K&N Filter is for that engine as the oils in it do not blend well in your injectors at all. You can do more harm then good by running one of them. These are not made for every engine at all. 

[dr_spock]

You could try http://www.honda-tech.com/   They have FAQs and stuff on DIY.

[tpl]

Overuse of the K&N oil can be near fatal to the MAF.... which can be cleaned but still a pain.

I suggest that any tiny difference in air flow between OEM and any other drop in, if any, would not notice except perhaps on a dyno.  the few extra horsepower on an atmospheric engine( not forced induction) between cold air using an aftermarket CAI  and OEM might just notice IF the FI system and ECU has enough range to provide enough gas for the extra mass of air.   Now if you chnage exhaust and camshaft(s) and fuel injectors at the same time..... thats a different story.

[articsteve]

I think even the Fram filter is better then the K&N Filter is for that engine as the oils in it do not blend well in your injectors at all. You can do more harm then good by running one of them. These are not made for every engine at all. 

 

Definitely stick with a regular type in this vehicle.

[locutusx]

I think even the Fram filter is better then the K&N Filter is for that engine as the oils in it do not blend well in your injectors at all. You can do more harm then good by running one of them. These are not made for every engine at all. 

 

Definitely stick with a regular type in this vehicle.

So basically, none of the K&N air filters would be a good idea for a 2002 EL?
Not even the one labelled "OEM replacement"?

[articsteve]

It is the oil that the owner applies to the K&N fabric that traps the dust and particles.  The tricky part is applying the correct amount so excess does get sucked in or in the alternative, if the oi supply is less than it should be then too much dirt gets by.

I would not use one on an EL stock air box.  The gains do not supercede the potential loss.

[curls]

It is the oil that the owner applies to the K&N fabric that traps the dust and particles.  The tricky part is applying the correct amount so excess does get sucked in or in the alternative, if the oi supply is less than it should be then too much dirt gets by.

I would not use one on an EL stock air box.  The gains do not supercede the potential loss.

Whilst I agree that oiling them can be tricky, one just has to remember that LESS IS MORE in this case.  Just enough to colour the fibers is all that is needed.  MANY people over-oil them, thinking its going to filter better...

When properly oiled, I'd bet that a K&N traps more particulate matter than a POS Fram filter would.

[barrie1]

Generally speaking we do not recommend the use of a K&N filter in this design of engine as it may and probably will cause problems for the car as has been stated. They are better off used in a Carborated design engined car or truck then a fuel injected type. 

[dr_spock]

You could also try to suck off excess oil with a wet vac before installing the K&N in your car.   It is no fun killing a MAF. 

On the 7th generation Civic/EL, the air box has 7 philip screws to remove to get to the filter element. 

[jamie1]

I wouldn't put a KnCrap filter on anything. I personally have seen the damage these filters do to an engine. The drop in "OE" style are the worst. The dust/dirt just goes around the seal. Unless you drive with your engine bouncing off the rev limiter,you will not see the benefit of a properly fitted KnN filter.

[curls]

I wouldn't put a KnCrap filter on anything. I personally have seen the damage these filters do to an engine. The drop in "OE" style are the worst. The dust/dirt just goes around the seal. Unless you drive with your engine bouncing off the rev limiter,you will not see the benefit of a properly fitted KnN filter.

Evidence?

And, the dust/dirt won't go around the seal if you use the recommended grease on the seal.  Again, with proper installation and use, These are excellent filters as proven on www.bobistheoilguy.com numerous times.

[articsteve]

I wouldn't put a KnCrap filter on anything. I personally have seen the damage these filters do to an engine. The drop in "OE" style are the worst. The dust/dirt just goes around the seal. Unless you drive with your engine bouncing off the rev limiter,you will not see the benefit of a properly fitted KnN filter.

Evidence?

And, the dust/dirt won't go around the seal if you use the recommended grease on the seal.  Again, with proper installation and use, These are excellent filters as proven on www.bobistheoilguy.com numerous times.

This is from BOBthe oil guy:

For the record, the K&N was the best flowing filter. Of the 3 types of media tested, the cotton gauze type filters flow best. There are other brands besides K&N for sale, of which most are probably made by K&N for resellers. Foam air filters flowed marginally better than paper.

A color comparison is used to determine real world filtration ability. Each test filter was used in the same car, on the same roads for 500 miles. The darker deposits indicate poorer filtration, and lighter ones better filtration. That said, both the cotton gauze type (K&N) and foam filters (Amsoil & Jackson Racing) showed the same levels of filtration. Both performed poorly compared to the fiberous or paper filters (Napa, Baldwin, and Mazda).

For increased flow, yes a K&N will be the best choice.  However, it will be the worst for filtering out crap.

Consequently, what is the benefit of increasing flow in an 1.7 EL?  Answer: ZIP all    What is the risk of reducing filtration and introducing oil to an EL intake?  $$$$$$

[jamie1]

I wouldn't put a KnCrap filter on anything. I personally have seen the damage these filters do to an engine. The drop in "OE" style are the worst. The dust/dirt just goes around the seal. Unless you drive with your engine bouncing off the rev limiter,you will not see the benefit of a properly fitted KnN filter.

Evidence?

And, the dust/dirt won't go around the seal if you use the recommended grease on the seal.  Again, with proper installation and use, These are excellent filters as proven on www.bobistheoilguy.com numerous times.

Evidence I can show you? No. But as a profession that rebuilds engines,I have seen the damage these filters do. Chrysler will NOT cover any engine damage if a KnN filter has been used in a cummins diesel engine. In fact,for these warrenty claims,service records must be produced including air and fuel filter changes.

[barrie1]

You have heard from some of the more involved folks in the car trade here and we recommend sticking with the stock style filter period. You can choose your own brand to be faithful with but the K&N are not recomended for this application at all. 

[curls]

I wouldn't put a KnCrap filter on anything. I personally have seen the damage these filters do to an engine. The drop in "OE" style are the worst. The dust/dirt just goes around the seal. Unless you drive with your engine bouncing off the rev limiter,you will not see the benefit of a properly fitted KnN filter.

Evidence?

And, the dust/dirt won't go around the seal if you use the recommended grease on the seal.  Again, with proper installation and use, These are excellent filters as proven on www.bobistheoilguy.com numerous times.

Evidence I can show you? No. But as a profession that rebuilds engines,I have seen the damage these filters do. Chrysler will NOT cover any engine damage if a KnN filter has been used in a cummins diesel engine. In fact,for these warrenty claims,service records must be produced including air and fuel filter changes.

Normally, yes, manufacturers will not warranty any engine w/ a non-OEM filter on it, whether it "meets OEM specs" or not...

But then again, Acura gave me a new short block even though I run a K&N-like (Injen) filter (CAI, actually).  They can't prove the filter did the DAMAGE, so they can't deny the claim.

[articsteve]

They can't prove the filter did the DAMAGE, so they can't deny the claim

Distributors don't need to prove anything.  If they deny a claim the vehicle owner needs to prove them wrong which is next to impossible practical speaking.

[barrie1]

Getting a new short or long block from the Maker has nothing to do with running a K&N air filter as its the Injection system it may damage and not the block area's at all.