Topic: Alternatives to a TSX - your advice - update: *deal done*

[Julie]

Lexus IS250 is the first car that comes to mind.  The AWD and 350 will probably be over your budget, though.  Still, very nice car to look at, Lexus quality and luxury...  yummy.  TSX is a good option, too.

Are you limiting yourself to brand new only?  A slightly used E46 BMW could be had in your price range with the more powerful engine and more options...  I do think the Caddy is worth a look, if you don't mind the styling.  The CTS has been getting very favourable reviews for being very "European" feeling on the road.

A Subaru WRX or Legacy also seems an obvious choice to look at. 

So - I don't think I've added anything to you list, but that would be my shortlist, I think.  Oh, but I'd probably add a used BMW M5...  I saw one on ebay for $30k USD. 

Thanks Demosthenes X,

I too think the M series are among the most beautiful things on earth......  but to be in my price range, they'd be too old for the model years I'm looking for..... 

Yes, that's what I heard about the Cadillac too. I wasn't really considering it at first, but hey, I want to keep an open mind. I'm willing to give it a try.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'd look at the 6 cylinder Fusion in either 3l or upcoming 3.5l form. I had an SEL as a rental a month or so ago and was amazed at how good it is. Very good ride/handling compromise, very quiet on the road, very good interior, very good room and seating, and a huge trunk. To top it off, there are some sweetheart deals from Ford that would likely make it the bargain of its class.

It is essentially the next version of the Mazda6 with a different body on it, so its reliability is likely the same.

[Julie]

I'd look at the 6 cylinder Fusion in either 3l or upcoming 3.5l form. I had an SEL as a rental a month or so ago and was amazed at how good it is. Very good ride/handling compromise, very quiet on the road, very good interior, very good room and seating, and a huge trunk. To top it off, there are some sweetheart deals from Ford that would likely make it the bargain of its class.

It is essentially the next version of the Mazda6 with a different body on it, so its reliability is likely the same.

A disguised Mazda. Wow, didn't know that. Going on my list. Thanks.

[The Mighty Duck]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/BMW-M5-Sedan-M5-Low-miles-Mint-Finest-on-Ebay-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220021796639QQihZ012QQcategoryZ133182QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Alas, the previous-generation M5 only came in a six-speed stick.  But the Formula 1-inspired V8 has got to be one of the most amazing sounds in the world.  Oh, and 400 horsepower... 

[Julie]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/BMW-M5-Sedan-M5-Low-miles-Mint-Finest-on-Ebay-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220021796639QQihZ012QQcategoryZ133182QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Alas, the previous-generation M5 only came in a six-speed stick.  But the Formula 1-inspired V8 has got to be one of the most amazing sounds in the world.  Oh, and 400 horsepower... 

Hmm...... thanks for the pic. That's is low mileage for a 2000.... Are you considering it, seriously? 

If I ever get a real sports car or something, I WILL learn to drive stick. Even if it kills me. No automatic Miatas either.

[The Mighty Duck]

If I had the money a used M3 or M5 would be my first choice.  But I don't have any money.    Starting tomorrow I'm one of those jobless, poor university kids subsisting on pizza and beer... 

[quadzilla]

I didn't think the Mazda6 would be available with the 3.5 until 2008? Iif that is what happens as there isn't any firm answers yet.

I'd also add the Mazda 6 Wagon to your list since you have the Legacy Wagon on there.

[mdxtasy]

It's tough to compare new to used.  With the depreciation curve, used cars seem to be a better value.  But keep in mind maintenance costs do not suffer depreciation.  I know of a few people who bought used and was surprised by maintenance costs. 

Example 1.  Bought a used 540i from Ontairo and shipped it out here.  Needed work (PPI did not reveal it) but did not expect a $3000 bill.

Example 2.  Bought a used 911.  Need I say more? 

Whatever you get, sports sedans are best when the engine works with the tranny and suspension.  If they are tuned together and work well, it's fun.  It doesn't need ALL that power.

Matching revs is when you downshift but before you do, blip the throttle so that the engine is at the proper rev range to ensure that the shift is smooth and not jerky.  Same principle as heel toe but without having to work all 3 pedals with 2 feet at the same time...

[wing]

engagement point is how far off the floor the clutch engages.  The higher it is the easier it is to drive as you don't have to push you foot all the way to the floor to shift or when sitting at lights.... makes you lazy.

[tpl]

yes but if that high engagement is combined with a strong spring and is at a point where your whole foot is off the floor  it can be very tiring 

[AVToller]

yes but if that high engagement is combined with a strong spring and is at a point where your whole foot is off the floor  it can be very tiring 

 

[Julie]

Updated List:

The updated list is now integrated into the first post, and regularly updated.

Any cars that you have taken the time to suggest to me, I appreciate, and if it does not make the list or is taken off, you will receive an explanation (it will showed "crossed out" in the list, with an explanation in italics afterwards.)

p.s. I'm also conserving your suggestions about stick driving as well. As I research this topic, I will make it a sticky thread with your suggestions integrated, for others like me. I think, in order to fully experience all the joys of driving, I need to eventually learn to properly drive shift. Believe it or not, although my first car was a stick, my husband and I managed, but weren't formally taught. I had no idea you could "downshift" as well...

[99 Silver]

You should test drive a G35.

I have had two since my 99 Acura TL and love them.  They handle much better than the TL and the engine has a lot of torque at low revs.

Definitely a fun car to drive.

[Julie]

It's tough to compare new to used.  With the depreciation curve, used cars seem to be a better value.  But keep in mind maintenance costs do not suffer depreciation.  I know of a few people who bought used and was surprised by maintenance costs. 

Example 1.  Bought a used 540i from Ontairo and shipped it out here.  Needed work (PPI did not reveal it) but did not expect a $3000 bill.

Example 2.  Bought a used 911.  Need I say more? 

Whatever you get, sports sedans are best when the engine works with the tranny and suspension.  If they are tuned together and work well, it's fun.  It doesn't need ALL that power.

Matching revs is when you downshift but before you do, blip the throttle so that the engine is at the proper rev range to ensure that the shift is smooth and not jerky.  Same principle as heel toe but without having to work all 3 pedals with 2 feet at the same time...

This is a good point. I would prefer not to buy used, unless:
- It's still relatively new (2 years is the outer limit)
- I suspect I may need to change it not long after the warranty wears out. For instance, I may take a chance and go with VW, BMW, etc., but may not want to be left with as much of a depreciation hit as when I buy new, if it turns out it's very costly to maintain.

[Julie]

You should test drive a G35.

I have had two since my 99 Acura TL and love them.  They handle much better than the TL and the engine has a lot of torque at low revs.

Definitely a fun car to drive.

Thanks 99 Silver. That one is my husband's favorite too.

We will be definitely checking that one out.

[The Mighty Duck]

Does Saab still make the 9-2X or whatever it was...  the tarted up Subaru Impreza?  I would take a good long look at one of those if it's still available...

[Julie]

Does Saab still make the 9-2X or whatever it was...  the tarted up Subaru Impreza?  I would take a good long look at one of those if it's still available...

It does. Is it like the equivalent of the WRX version of the Impreza?

[Wolfe]

Does Saab still make the 9-2X or whatever it was...  the tarted up Subaru Impreza?  I would take a good long look at one of those if it's still available...

It does. Is it like the equivalent of the WRX version of the Impreza?

Saab does still sell the 9-2x but they only have the non-turbo version now. They did sell a turbo Aero version but discontinued it after the 2005 model year.

Julie you may also be able to find a 2005 Saab 9-2x Aero used which is basically a WRX with a nicer interior, a bit more sound insulation, and slightly more restrained styling (the hood scoop is less prominent, and it has a Saab grille).

[Julie]

Does Saab still make the 9-2X or whatever it was...  the tarted up Subaru Impreza?  I would take a good long look at one of those if it's still available...

It does. Is it like the equivalent of the WRX version of the Impreza?

Saab does still sell the 9-2x but they only have the non-turbo version now. They did sell a turbo Aero version but discontinued it after the 2005 model year.

Julie you may also be able to find a 2005 Saab 9-2x Aero used which is basically a WRX with a nicer interior, a bit more sound insulation, and slightly more restrained styling (the hood scoop is less prominent, and it has a Saab grille).

Thanks for the info Wolfe and Demos.

I've been looking at the Subie website. WRX looks interesting, but I think I prefer the larger size/refinement of the Legacy GT better, now that I have a better idea of what all the Subie models are!

[gosteelerz]

From your original list..

Acura TL Has had auto tranny problems, not enough time has passed to see if resolved
Acura TSX You may have had it right from the beginning, worth strong consideration, not as much $$
Audi A3, with DSG  See your Volkswagen notes
Audi A4 2.0T            Ditto
BMW 325i, previous generation Expensive repairs if not warrantied, maybe go new same $$ as IS
BMW 330i, previous generation   Ditto
Cadillac CTS    Haven't heard much about these one way or the other, watch depriciation.
Ford Fusion V6, 3.0L  Much prefer the Mazda6 Sport wagon if you are going 3.0L
Ford Fusion V6, 3.5L   If you want the 3.5L then go Fusion over the 6
Infiniti G35   Can't go wrong with this, AWD avail too if you want it.
Lexus IS 250  Same kind of money as the BMW, solid reliability.  For less $$ I like the G35.
Lexus IS 250, AWD  Ditto
Lexus IS 350, used    Will be scarce and almost as much as new.  Found first gen IS underwhelming.
Mazda6, with 3.5L engine - not sure when available
Mazda6, SportWagon    If you go to Rona or Ikea a lot this is the ride.  Begs for a stick shift. 
Saab 9-3 - Reliability is poor, according to Consumers Reports
Subaru Legacy GT, sedan ($36,795)            Safe, solid, reliable and AWD.
Subaru Legacy GT, sedan, LTD ($40,295)      Ditto
Subaru Legacy GT, wagon, LTD ($41,795)       Ditto
Subaru WRX, sedan ($35,495) - prefer larger size/refinement of Legacy GT
Subaru WRX, Sportwagon ($35,495) - prefer larger size/refinement of Legacy GT
Volvo S40 T5   Too close in price to some great cars above.
VW Jetta GLI, with DSG - may be willing to wait to see first couple years' reliability, if it's my final top pick