Feature: Camaro - then & now

[CD_Editor]

A brief history of the Camaro is followed by Jeff Burry's test drive of a new 2011 Camaro SS convertible.

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[nlm]

A good overview of the Camaro line - thanks for that!

[dragonfly]

 If I'm not mistaken, the engine choices in 1969 included a 230 cubic inch straight six..not V-6...Chevy's venerable old standby..
                                  Thanks for a nice review   dragonfly

[Mike]

Makes me kinda miss my old 1996

[Thinking Out Loud]

"By 1969, GM designers were well on their way to designing the next-generation Camaro, sold from 1970 through to 1981. However, the 1969 model would establish for GM a focal point or “benchmark” for future variations of the Camaro."

   and so starts GM's inability to keep up with the rest of the market....selling a 10-year old automobile in 1980 as 'new'. 

I suppose Ford went down the same path with the Fox-platform Mustang....but al least they did more to it than changing the front and rear end clips!   

Personally, I had a 1984 Camaro Berlinetta with the t-tops (it was used when I got it).  Digital dash would flash at you when you exceeded 125 KPH and never told you how fast you were actually going.  Only had the 2.8 V6, but was a great cruiser.

[Erik]

Why change it if it started selling better with every year? GM almost killed the F bodies in 1973, but sales started improving slowly. Not enough to spend a bunch of money  on a new one, but enough to at least keep it alive. The Trans Am was the real story of the 70's, and the Pontiac boys did a lot to keep updating it and keeping it competitive. Had their best sales years ever in 1978 and 79.

And let's not forget that the 79 Camaro and Firebird were still better pony cars than the brand new 79 Mustang. And let's not even talk about the mustang II.

Considering that GM had to deal with emissions controls and moronic things like CAFE regulations, they put their money where they needed to spend it.

[Spec5]

I remember really wanting one of the '92 or '94 (forget which model year it was exactly) anniversary editions with the 5.7L (?) TPI motor in it. Black with the red racing stripes and the funky rear wing. Super hot car. Ended up buying a Firebird instead and it was a great car to have through end of highschool/start of college. Was only the v6 but the v8 only had an extra 40HP back then. The fact that it was a 5spd made it feel plenty punchy. Can't believe how much money I sank into that thing in ball joints, A/C repairs and various other expenses. I worked all weekend and a few shifts during the week just to be able to keep the freakin' thing. Good times though

[Minou]

The Berlinetta went on sale before 1982 and had been available a few model years back with the previous generation IIRC.  I remember a friend who had one delivered brand new with NO rear shocks...  American quality at its best remember.

[johngenx]

I owned a 1979 Camaro Sport Coupe.  I wanted a V-8 "base car" to avoid the flash of the Z-28.  The car was junk.  The body was horrible with mismatched panels.  The plastic nose and tail had a slightly different paint hue than the metal parts.  The interior panels fit terribly and the seats were hardly worth sitting on.  The stock 350ci engine didn't make much power for the engine size, but the three speed TH350 automatic was a great unit.  People gush over the TH400, but the 350 was more than strong enough, and with only minor mods, could handle huge power.

Anyway, the car went to the body shop, the OE paint stripped off (those cars barely had any factory rust-proofing anyway) and the panels were all painstakingly aligned.  The surface prep was such that the plastic and metal panels were colour matched once the paint was on.  The interior was mostly stock but better seats and some dash mods made it more comfortable and added some better instruments.  Why did I even buy that car?  The chassis.

Those F-body 71-81 cars were amazing raw platforms.  Yeah, they had leaf springs and a solid axle, but it didn't take much to turn them into some pretty wicked cars.  First, eliminate the flex by tying the subframes together.  Next, toss out the factory weak leafs and have a shop fabricate progressive leafs.  Chuck the sway bars and buy some Herb Adams units with poly bushings.  Firm up the front end with either Herb Adams coils or the WS6 units from GM.  Score some 1LE rear discs.  Make sure your OE diff has posi, if not get one and a 3.55 rear ratio set.

The engine bay on those cars will allow a lot of engine to just drop in.  Big blocks fit, but if you're going street with some handling, the lighter small block is better.  A roller-cam 350 can easily produce >400hp and rev to 8000rpm.  Today I'd use an FI system instead of a carb.  An LT1 four bolt block, forged crank, pink rods, forged slugs, 202 heads, a big mandrel bent custom exhaust and Flowmasters, and you're on your way to building a low 11sec car that can handle.  One caveat: the massive Herb Adams sway bars kill the cars ability to launch, so if you are spending an evening at the strip, disconnect the front bar for 10x better launches.

That was the appeal of those cars.  They weren't great cars to buy and drive.  They were great cars to buy and build.  The 1970's emissions and other stuff killed the power, but with some time and not that much money, you could own a very quick car.

[mr.steevo]

A friend of mine in high school drove a three year old T top and what a piece of junk it was. Squeaky, rattling, leaky GM quality.

[chrischasescars]

If I'm not mistaken, the engine choices in 1969 included a 230 cubic inch straight six..not V-6...Chevy's venerable old standby..
                                  Thanks for a nice review   dragonfly

You're right! The first V6 Camaro didn't appear till 1980. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Mozeby]

A friend of mine in high school drove a three year old T top and what a piece of junk it was. Squeaky, rattling, leaky GM quality.

If you've ever owned a t-top you'd know that they're all crap, not just the camaro.  That's part of the reason everyone ditched them.

[Mike]

That first shot provided by GM looks like a model, not an actual car.

[Erik]

I owned a 1979 Camaro Sport Coupe.  I wanted a V-8 "base car" to avoid the flash of the Z-28.  The car was junk.  The body was horrible with mismatched panels.  The plastic nose and tail had a slightly different paint hue than the metal parts.  The interior panels fit terribly and the seats were hardly worth sitting on.  The stock 350ci engine didn't make much power for the engine size, but the three speed TH350 automatic was a great unit.  People gush over the TH400, but the 350 was more than strong enough, and with only minor mods, could handle huge power.

Anyway, the car went to the body shop, the OE paint stripped off (those cars barely had any factory rust-proofing anyway) and the panels were all painstakingly aligned.  The surface prep was such that the plastic and metal panels were colour matched once the paint was on.  The interior was mostly stock but better seats and some dash mods made it more comfortable and added some better instruments.  Why did I even buy that car?  The chassis.

Those F-body 71-81 cars were amazing raw platforms.  Yeah, they had leaf springs and a solid axle, but it didn't take much to turn them into some pretty wicked cars.  First, eliminate the flex by tying the subframes together.  Next, toss out the factory weak leafs and have a shop fabricate progressive leafs.  Chuck the sway bars and buy some Herb Adams units with poly bushings.  Firm up the front end with either Herb Adams coils or the WS6 units from GM.  Score some 1LE rear discs.  Make sure your OE diff has posi, if not get one and a 3.55 rear ratio set.

The engine bay on those cars will allow a lot of engine to just drop in.  Big blocks fit, but if you're going street with some handling, the lighter small block is better.  A roller-cam 350 can easily produce >400hp and rev to 8000rpm.  Today I'd use an FI system instead of a carb.  An LT1 four bolt block, forged crank, pink rods, forged slugs, 202 heads, a big mandrel bent custom exhaust and Flowmasters, and you're on your way to building a low 11sec car that can handle.  One caveat: the massive Herb Adams sway bars kill the cars ability to launch, so if you are spending an evening at the strip, disconnect the front bar for 10x better launches.

That was the appeal of those cars.  They weren't great cars to buy and drive.  They were great cars to buy and build.  The 1970's emissions and other stuff killed the power, but with some time and not that much money, you could own a very quick car.

Or, you did what I did, and start with a Trans Am with the WS6 handling package. Much tighter and faster steering box, urethane bushings, big bars and stiffer springs, rear discs (from 79 onward), etc. No, you didn't get the frame connectors (the car always felt like it had a hinge at the firewall), but it was an amazingly fun car to drive. Especially with the W72 400. Made Camaros into snack food.

[johngenx]

Made stock Camaros into snack food.

Fixed that.  WS6 cars were rare, and unless buying new, they weren't easy finds.  Much simpler to find either a Firebird or Camaro and make your own.  I also wasn't a fan of the 400ci engine.  Could be made powerful, if I was planning on transplanting a new mill in anyway, spending the extra dough (even used) for a 400 equipped FB made no sense.  The Chev 350 had so much more support for creating a high horsepower unit.

Stock vs stock, the WS6 400ci Firebird was the pick of the litter, with a Z-28 trailing behind.  The WS6 gear was phenomenal, and the front coils were THE units to have.  For some reason, the WS6 rear leafs were outrageously expensive, and I found it cheaper to have custom ones made.  Back in the day, it wasn't too hard to find good shops capable of that stuff.  Probably not so much now.

I really enjoyed having an "old school" Pony car that had old fashioned live axle suspension and so on, but could run low 11's AND pull 1.0g on the skid pad.  I funded many trips to the tire store with cash taken off Mustang owners from "Run what ya brung" nights...

[Erik]

Made stock Camaros into snack food.

Fixed that.  WS6 cars were rare, and unless buying new, they weren't easy finds.  Much simpler to find either a Firebird or Camaro and make your own.  I also wasn't a fan of the 400ci engine.  Could be made powerful, if I was planning on transplanting a new mill in anyway, spending the extra dough (even used) for a 400 equipped FB made no sense.  The Chev 350 had so much more support for creating a high horsepower unit.

Stock vs stock, the WS6 400ci Firebird was the pick of the litter, with a Z-28 trailing behind.  The WS6 gear was phenomenal, and the front coils were THE units to have.  For some reason, the WS6 rear leafs were outrageously expensive, and I found it cheaper to have custom ones made.  Back in the day, it wasn't too hard to find good shops capable of that stuff.  Probably not so much now.

I really enjoyed having an "old school" Pony car that had old fashioned live axle suspension and so on, but could run low 11's AND pull 1.0g on the skid pad.  I funded many trips to the tire store with cash taken off Mustang owners from "Run what ya brung" nights...

Yeah, it was not easy to get a ton more power out of a 400. The heads sucked for that. The aftermarket finally saved the day with a good breathing, aluminum bolt on head. Made a huge difference, and saved some weight on the front end.

Did I mention I LOVED my WS6/W72 Trans Am? Still the most fun handling car I have ever owned. Not best handling, or best cornering, but just an absolute blast. The steering box really made the car. Modest extra weight, but so incredibly quick and direct. If memory serves, just over 2 turns lock to lock. No sneeze factor at all, so you actually had to pay attention when driving. But the car constantly spoke to you. You ALWAYS knew what it was going to do. I went back to 70 series performance tires (Goodyear Eagle GT+4's I think were the last ones), cause they were stiff enough to handle well, but you could feel the deflection of the sidewalls in a wonderful way. Made the whole car a delight to drive hard. Drove many cars that cornered harder, but none that felt so good doing it.

The great thing about those cars was that you could drive them hard on the street and have lots of fun driving them, without being really stupid. Nowadays, performance cars are so refined, that to have any fun, you have to drive them stupid fast.

Damn, starting to sound like an old fart, but it some ways, the good old days were better.

[safristi]

..Give me "THEN"...fond memories of a beauty 60's convertible owned by a workmate...and not so fond memories of a bud's beige 70's POS  that kept getting stuck in the snow and ice............nearly had to tow him with the Lotus Elan from the lane behind my house...then the beer wore off................ ......YOU can't GO BACK..the WIZARD won't let U in Kansas anymore..........

[Stickershock]

If you've ever owned a t-top you'd know that they're all crap, not just the camaro.  That's part of the reason everyone ditched them.
[/quote]

My Red 94 Z28 5.7 6speed manual had them and they were a bit annoying to remove but otherwise we didn't mind them.

I still miss the original Camaro body style tho. That was my personal favourite. Those are the cars I grew up with and I will miss them dearly. Buddies in school showing up with their bondo'd up rides with cheesy yellow paint jobs and faded black interior.

I guess I am sucker for gas guzzlers that made no pratical sense other than to help support the oil companies. :-)

Interesting read. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

[Erik]

If you've ever owned a t-top you'd know that they're all crap, not just the camaro.  That's part of the reason everyone ditched them.

My Red 94 Z28 5.7 6speed manual had them and they were a bit annoying to remove but otherwise we didn't mind them.

I still miss the original Camaro body style tho. That was my personal favourite. Those are the cars I grew up with and I will miss them dearly. Buddies in school showing up with their bondo'd up rides with cheesy yellow paint jobs and faded black interior.

I guess I am sucker for gas guzzlers that made no pratical sense other than to help support the oil companies. :-)

Interesting read. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
[/quote]

What does practically have to do with it? It serves exactly the purpose it was designed for: to put a huge smile on your face and make every drive a memorable experience. A car can serve no more practical purpose than that.